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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2012, 09:12:57 » |
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Many of the recent improvements could've been delivered earlier in the current franchise and doing them now seem like a distraction technique designed to gloss over the problems in the past. I understand the charm-offensive thing, but weren't the 180s and most of the extra sprinters dependant on the introduction of London Midland's 172s, so couldn't have happened much sooner? Not to worry I have been told by some contacts I know that certain members of the WG are getting very annoyed with Arriva ( thats utting it politely).
In fact I am hoping for National express to run the next wales franchise (Just goes to show how much I hate ATW▸ ) My hope for the next Wales franchise is the the idea from Labour's and Plaid's WAG» election manifestios of a non-profit operator. WAG seems to have identified TOC profits, one of the sources of wastage of money in the priviatised railway, and the Scottish parlement has identified a different one (the mass re-liverying when TOCs change). Shame the Westminister government is blindly sticking with full privatisation and ignoring all of that (and other huge wastes like having stock leased to TOCs rather than owned by TOCs, or owned by the state with a free lease given to TOCs as part of their franchises). Of course if TOCs owned the rolling stock there would need to be a totally different model of privatisation, more like the suituation before nationalisation with seemingly perminant operators. That might not work very well today now that railways are predominatly loss-making. |
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Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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grahame
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« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2012, 17:35:42 » |
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We can look at every one on the short list and find "issues" with them from the past, and / or passengers who are less than keen on them. But to some extent that's the effect of the system and the environment in which they operate, and to a further extent it's exactly because they've been around a while. And because they've been around a while, they should be able to get this franchise operation right - especially if they're given the right metrics on which to bid and operate, and the correct incentives. Written earlier today ... I believe that any of the four established operators I saw mentioned today as potential franchisees (Arriva, First, National Express and Stagecoach) would be well able within an appropriate franchise specification to meet those needs, using staff who already have route knowledge and trains which are already running in the area and provide the current limited service. The provision of a longer franchise is encouraging both in terms of the stability and inward investment it can bring, but it is critically important that it avoids targets and specifications which distort provision for the travelling customer in order to meet the contract. |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2012, 20:42:14 » |
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I'm still a little uneasy with First Group's decision to walk away early from FGW▸ to save money. Yes I know they were perfectly entitled to do so, but I still don't like that. Shareholders first, government second, passengers last.
I'm also a bit cynical about all the recent improvements that FGW have brought in and crowed about. That just seems like a charm offensive. Many of the recent improvements could've been delivered earlier in the current franchise and doing them now seem like a distraction technique designed to gloss over the problems in the past.
So. New broom please.
On the other hand a director of a business is legally required to ensure share holders get the best return on their investment. |
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All posts are my own personal believes, opinions and understandings!
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2012, 20:51:15 » |
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List is out - Bidders are :
First Great Western Trains Limited (FirstGroup plc)
GW▸ Trains Limited (Arriva UK▸ Trains Limited ^ DB» (UK) Investments Limited)
NXGW▸ Trains Limited (National Express Group PLC)
Stagecoach Great Western Trains Limited (Stagecoach Group plc)
SNCF▸ didn't make the first cut for any of the franchises. Interesting.. seem to have slipped slightly in their plans for world railway domination as well.... |
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2012, 20:55:16 » |
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Many of the recent improvements could've been delivered earlier in the current franchise and doing them now seem like a distraction technique designed to gloss over the problems in the past. I understand the charm-offensive thing, but weren't the 180s and most of the extra sprinters dependant on the introduction of London Midland's 172s, so couldn't have happened much sooner? Correct. The DfT» tender document for the 2006 Greater Western franchise saw the reduction in West DMU▸ fleet size which caused most of the problems round Bristol. The rest of the problems being mainly due to the ex Wessex Trains / NEx units being somewhat knackered. Now you'd think DfT might have learnt something from that excercise and all those 'fairs fare' protests round Bath / Bristol but it seems not as the GE franchise has been awarded to Abelio on the basis of parking up large chunks of their EMU▸ fleet. |
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vacman
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« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2012, 22:24:00 » |
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I'm still a little uneasy with First Group's decision to walk away early from FGW▸ to save money. Yes I know they were perfectly entitled to do so, but I still don't like that. Shareholders first, government second, passengers last.
I disagree, the goalpost's have changed dramatically since the current franchise was let, firstly IEP▸ should have been in around about now, the Economy isn't what was forecast and during the last governments time in office there was no chance of any franchise longer than about 7 years. |
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John R
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« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2012, 23:04:42 » |
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I'm still a little uneasy with First Group's decision to walk away early from FGW▸ to save money. Yes I know they were perfectly entitled to do so, but I still don't like that. Shareholders first, government second, passengers last.
But the government set the terms of the contract, which clearly gave the holder the option to walk away. Why would you stick with it and lose money for three more years when you know that you won't get any credit at the retender, because the government will only look at the terms offered going forward. There's been no evidence to date that a good track record counts for anything when it comes to reletting of a franchise. |
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2012, 23:07:52 » |
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Cough ... I agree with John R there, actually ...  |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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EBrown
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« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2012, 23:27:32 » |
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SNCF▸ RENFE▸ seem to have slipped slightly in their plans for world railway domination as well.... I knew what I meant! My apologies, getting my railway operators mixed up again!  |
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I am no longer an active member of this website.
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2012, 23:51:18 » |
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SNCF▸ RENFE▸ seem to have slipped slightly in their plans for world railway domination as well.... I knew what I meant! My apologies, getting my railway operators mixed up again! I hadn't realised SNCF had actually put in for the GW▸ . That said Messroom Gossip being what it is some would have you believe the Japanese and Chinese were actually in the frame until yesterdays announcement. I think somebody may have got their wires crossed with all this talk of Japanese Bullet Express Electro - diesel Dromedaries doing the rounds at the momant. |
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eightf48544
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« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2012, 23:54:04 » |
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Whoever gets the franchise it's going to be a real stinker for at least the first 6 years.
Electrification/IEP▸ /Crossrail/Crossrail EMUS, anyone of which has the potential to cause major problems let alone introducing all four more or less simulatanously. Although if the Crossrail units are ordered in time then they should have shaken down before they venture West of Paddington.
I wouldn't expect large premium payments to appear in any of the bids at least for those 6 years. It might come down to who will ask for the least subsidy.
However, I would like to see it go to whoever puts forward the most ambitious investment plans over above electrificataion IEP and Crossrail. Evergreens 4, 5 & 6!
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2012, 23:56:25 » |
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But the government set the terms of the contract, which clearly gave the holder the option to walk away. Why would you stick with it and lose money for three more years when you know that you won't get any credit at the retender, because the government will only look at the terms offered going forward. There's been no evidence to date that a good track record counts for anything when it comes to reletting of a franchise.
Cough ... I agree with John R there, actually ... Quite. You can't really argue with that. Personally I would like DfT» to wander over to Northern Ireland and see how the public transport is organised and operated and see if that model of operation could cope with the UK▸ mainland transport system, seems to work like a charm whenever I go over there and use it. None of this cost cutting to win franchises ver there, just a transport system which works extremely well... |
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2012, 00:01:22 » |
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I wouldn't expect large premium payments to appear in any of the bids at least for those 6 years. It might come down to who will ask for the least subsidy.
However, I would like to see it go to whoever puts forward the most ambitious investment plans over above electrificataion IEP▸ and Crossrail. Evergreens 4, 5 & 6!
Won't work like that, I expect the cheapest compliant bid which embraces IEP and doesn't cost the taxpayer much wins the day in all probability. The DfT» and the TOC▸ can then have one of those mock battles to blame each other when it is found (like 'Operation Princess') that lots of little Bullet EDMU Railbuses swarming around and queuing at the pinch points doesn't give a better railway overall. If Crossrail does come indeed down to Reading then thats all the extra capacity there swallowed up before they have even finished knocking it about... |
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JayMac
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« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2012, 00:44:04 » |
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Interesting to see that the refutations of my point of view all mention the TOC▸ and the governments. Not a peep about the passenger. And to pick up on vacman's point about the last government not offering franchises for longer than about 7 years. Merseyrail. 25 years Chiltern Railway. 20 years Arriva Trains Wales. 15 years TransPennine Express. 11 years. South West Trains. 10 years GNER▸ . 10 years (franchise withdrawn by govt. after 2 years) Northern. 9 years CrossCountry. 8^ years |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2012, 00:52:33 » |
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As a passenger I'd still prefer First though, based on the pre-qualified choices. From extensive personal experience I'm thoroughly unimpressed with Arriva's management of ATW▸ , and CrossCountry has failed to live up to many of the promises made at the beginning of the franchise. NEx made a reasonable fist of Wales and West: for a while they also did a good job at Wessex/Wales and Borders. However they let Wessex go to rack and ruin by the end of the franchise, and their track record elsewhere (NXEC▸ ) leaves a lot to be desired.
I have not used their services very often, but Stagecoach appears to do a very respectable job at SWT▸ (cue howls of disagreement from Hogrider County). However, were Stagecoach to control the GW▸ and SW franchises that would give them a near monopoly on all rail transport southwest of London.
None of the choices is perfect, but weighing the various factors up in my mind I'd still much rather see First keep GW.
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