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Author Topic: Engine Derailed on WCML at Bletchley Junction - 3 February 2012  (Read 12723 times)
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2012, 19:31:15 »

I agree with BNM, drivers make a big thing that one of the major skills in their profession is route knowledge.  The infrastructure performed its part in that it checked the trains speed and cleared the route based on the speed the rate the drive accelerates is his / her job based on the "route knowledge skill".   A locomotive of this class has a lot of power and would be akin to a formula one racing car as a light engine.

I suppose when full ETC and ETRMS installed the drive will just push a go button and the system will do the rest
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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2012, 21:14:27 »

The RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) are also right to highlight the usefulness of the Weekly Operating Notice in alerting drivers to expect unusual moves like that.  As it is, I can guarantee that virtually all drivers do not read and familiarise themselves with the content of these notices as they are supposed to.  This is mostly due to the size of the notice, which is usually well over 100 pages and full of stuff which is pretty irrelevant.  A much better system would be for a daily operating notice to be issued when a driver books on duty, attached to the drivers duty diagram, which only contains information relevant to routes they work over and that is relevant to that particular day.  The presentation of such information could also be improved on how it is currently presented in the WON (Weekly Operating Notice ) - removing the extra information which is of no concern to drivers.  The WON, in its current form, is a weighty and outdated document and largely seen as irrelevant by most drivers.

I dimly recall that there was a 19th century accident that was blamed on the driver not reading an overly long operating notice. Was it Mexborough? As far as I remember the driver was prosecuted for manslaughter and was found not guilty because it was unreasonable to expect him to read such a long document. Its somewhere in O S Nock's book 'Red for Danger'.
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« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2012, 21:21:02 »

Think you might have your authors muddled ellendune.  "Red for Danger" was written by LTC Rolt.  OS (Ordnance Survey) Nock wrote a number of books on railway accidents including "Historic Railway Disasters".

Mr Nock, who I had the honour of meeting once, was aboard a train involved in an accident.  The derailment at Foxhall Junction near Didcot in September 1967.
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2012, 15:37:36 »

Having read the report, I feel the key 'casual factor' was the type of junction indicator fitted to that signal. 

Is that not just speculation though? The RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) said this was only a possible factor in the incident and is the only part of the report that questions the infrastructure. So I'd disagree with 'key'. Who's to say the incident wouldn't have occurred with a 'feather' route indicator? The driver has been shown to have speeded elsewhere in the journey, at one point by nearly 30% above the speed for that class of train. He was also in excess of (and accelerating) the long standing TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction) of 50mph through Bletchley station.

Perhaps I didn't word that quite as well as I could have done.  The phrase 'I feel' was meant to indicate that, yes, I am speculating based on knowledge of similar signalling situations and my own experience of driving - which I should stress doesn't include driving trains through Bletchley - though I am reasonably aware of the track layout there.

All of the evidence points towards it being the drivers fault and I don't dispute that for one moment, but what I meant was that of all the other mitigating circumstances that did, or might, have led to the driver making that mistake, personally I think that the most significant was the type of route indication provided at that signal.  This is discussed in points 78 and 79 of the report - and my opinion is that at a location where you are not routed somewhere routinely, if you get five lights effectively showing you an arrow pointing in the direction you're going, you're far more likely to register that fact rather than just seeing a letter displayed.

With evidence of poor driving and the failure to have noted from the Weekly Operating Notice (that he'd signed for to say he would read it) that the slow lines south of Bletchley were closed, I think, as a layman, the majority of blame lies with the driver. The driver had had 4 days between signing for the WON (Weekly Operating Notice ) and the incident. Was that not time enough to have read and digested it? Also if daily operating notices are to be issued how would that work with drivers booking on by phone, as was the case in this incident? If the WON is seen as irrelevant by most drivers then that does need addressing, but in the meantime if it is crucial to the safe operation of the railway then I think it's dangerous to dismiss it as an irrelevance.

There are probably about 40-50 entries in a typical WON just concerning possessions.  Unless you are directly involved in the possession, i.e. you're driving one of the trains within it, then 99% of them are pretty irrelevant to a driver, as you should always be aware that you might be routed from and too different lines on route - especially late evening and weekends.  Hence my comments that, in the form it currently takes, it is pretty much an irrelevance.

If a driver books on by phone they should always receive, usually by fax, a 'Late Notice' before they drive.  This notice contains details of things that may have happened since the WON was produced - i.e. emergency speed restrictions and emergency possessions and things like short notice changes to operating procedures.  A Daily Operating Notice in the form I suggested would be combined with, or attached to that late notice along with the drivers duties for the shift.
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2012, 16:47:37 »

Think you might have your authors muddled ellendune.  "Red for Danger" was written by LTC Rolt.  OS (Ordnance Survey) Nock wrote a number of books on railway accidents including "Historic Railway Disasters".

Mr Nock, who I had the honour of meeting once, was aboard a train involved in an accident.  The derailment at Foxhall Junction near Didcot in September 1967.

I did say dimly recall.  Oh hum. I hope I rrecalled the deatils of the accident correctly. 
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2012, 10:36:24 »

The Foxhall accident if I recall was also caused by a driver forgetting he was on the Relief line which came to end and misread the signals.

There have been several other accidents where divers have misinterpreted signals Berhampstead where there wa mix of colour light and semaphores and the driver seeemed not realise he was signalled to cross to the slow lines.

Colwich involved the misinterpretation of flashing yellows, the driver thinking it applied to the Stoke line junction raher than the nearer Fast Slow junction.

Interpretation of signals by drivers is a fascinating subject and one to which only slow progress was made. As a bit of controversy in my view there is something wrong with any signal that is SPAD (Signal Passed At Danger) twice in two years. Ladbroke Grove was the 9th SPAD of SN109.     


 
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 11:51:06 »

Interpretation of signals by drivers is a fascinating subject and one to which only slow progress was made. As a bit of controversy in my view there is something wrong with any signal that is SPAD (Signal Passed At Danger) twice in two years. Ladbroke Grove was the 9th SPAD of SN109.     

If I recall correctly RailTrack had not convened a Line Sighting Committee on the GW (Great Western) Zone for some considerable time leading up to Ladbroke Grove.  Line Sighting Committees a chore to go through, a project I am involved needs to shift a signal by 150mm and as the red aspect alignment alters we have to go through the process, quite rightly.
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 20:55:49 »

The Foxhall accident if I recall was also caused by a driver forgetting he was on the Relief line which came to end and misread the signals.

Indeed it was, eightf48544.  Smiley

Details of the 'Accident at Foxhall Junction, Didcot on 27th September 1967' are available on the Railways Archive website.
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 23:36:59 »



If I recall correctly RailTrack had not convened a Line Sighting Committee on the GW (Great Western) Zone for some considerable time leading up to Ladbroke Grove.  Line Sighting Committees a chore to go through, a project I am involved needs to shift a signal by 150mm and as the red aspect alignment alters we have to go through the process, quite rightly.

It is interesting that when I was at Waterloo between 62/64 I was in the Section that dealt with accidents and other incidents including SPADs (Signal Passed At Danger). In those days as soon as there was a SPAD the local ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) branch would be demanding a signal sighting commttee be convened. It was usually granted and usually reported signal was OK!

We did have some interesting reports when sodium street lights were installed on rail bridges particularly where there was signal before the bridge. We got the council to fit shades behind the lights so they were not viisable from the track. Swaythling comes to mind.

I have a vague recollection that at that time it was forbiden (Bye Law?) to shine a light diirectly onto the railway. Is that still  in force?  I've notice that a lot of premises seem to have quite bright lights shining onto the railway.

Fortunately no major accidents on the South Western during my time. The most entries in filing book were Weymouth Quay "Train hit car" always 1 nil to the train and Sunnigdale "car hitting A30 crossing gates (no M3)" often a score draw depending on speed of car..
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 23:42:07 by eightf48544 » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2012, 10:25:01 »

We did have some interesting reports when sodium street lights were installed on rail bridges particularly where there was signal before the bridge. We got the council to fit shades behind the lights so they were not viisable from the track. Swaythling comes to mind.

I have a vague recollection that at that time it was forbiden (Bye Law?) to shine a light diirectly onto the railway. Is that still  in force?  I've notice that a lot of premises seem to have quite bright lights shining onto the railway.

A few years ago now I remember watching them fitting a section of pretty solid looking fencing above the wall of the railway cutting approaching Fratton Bridge, as seen from the track at Fratton station, and it turned out this was all part of a traffic light scheme on the road junction.  I should think road traffic light green and red phases are a massive problem if the lights ever get put in without being fully checked out by the railway...
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2012, 02:14:26 »

The driver had had 4 days between signing for the WON (Weekly Operating Notice ) and the incident. Was that not time enough to have read and digested it?

Just as a follow up to my reply to BNM's original post, I took a gander at this weeks WON as issued to FGW (First Great Western) LTV (London [and] Thames Valley) drivers.  It comprises of a total of 371 A5 pages, of which 100 pages are 'Section B' listing the upcoming engineering possessions during that week.  That's a heck of a lot of digesting - and an almighty waste of paper!   Undecided
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2012, 10:04:08 »

Wouldn't mind betting some of the planned possessions are out of date as well as resources are diverted to coping with the weather.
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2012, 11:26:12 »

Wouldn't mind betting some of the planned possessions are out of date as well as resources are diverted to coping with the weather.
The driver had had 4 days between signing for the WON (Weekly Operating Notice ) and the incident. Was that not time enough to have read and digested it?
There is a huge amount of pressure on us in Projects to publish everything on the bases that "we informed you"

Just as a follow up to my reply to BNM's original post, I took a gander at this weeks WON as issued to FGW (First Great Western) LTV (London [and] Thames Valley) drivers.  It comprises of a total of 371 A5 pages, of which 100 pages are 'Section B' listing the upcoming engineering possessions during that week.  That's a heck of a lot of digesting - and an almighty waste of paper!   Undecided

Maintenance may well have diverted resources elsewhere; some NR» (Network Rail - home page) project teams may have diverted some resources especially if the floods impacts on their projects other than that engineering notices for projects will still be used unless operationally that line / route is needed for diverts
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