Urgh... Now I've been taken for a ride... :(

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

Decided to do a journey from Salisbury to Eastbourne today I originally purchased an Off-Peak Day Return routed Clapham Junction NOT London. which I was happy with.

When I arrived at Eastbourne I got drawn into one of those maps that shows the different lines in the the SE of England. I thought, Now a logical route to me would be: Eastbourne to Hastings, Then Hastings to Waterloo East, Walk to Waterloo and i'm sorted... Then I quickly remembered that my ticket was NOT LONDON, which includes Waterloo East.

So I used FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s new iPhone App to look to see if there was a more flexible ticket route wise. It appears there was one, which was AP NOT UNDERGROUND, which further built up the idea in my head that you could go to Eastbourne > Hastings > Waterloo East > WALK to Waterloo and then continue back to Salisbury. It's via London and I have not set foot in the Underground!

So whilst onboard the train to Eastbourne I asked the conductor if he could excess my return portion of my ticket for Change of Route to AP NOT UNDERGROUND. He was incredibly helpful, but I think we must have been communicating in different languages, as he charged me ^12.10 which didn't seem overly right, then when he printed my tickets I realised very quickly what the problem was. He'd double excessed me

He had provided me with an Excess Change of Route AND Excess Destination. So, now I have 4 tickets for 2 journeys, for which I needed 1 to get me to Eastbourne, and then 2 to get me to Salisbury via Hastings and Waterloo East!

So my question is, am I right in thinking that on a AP NOT UNDERGROUND, you can use Southern from Eastbourne to Hastings and then Southeastern from Hastings to Waterloo East? What does "The Manual" say? If I can't do it i'll bail out at Eastbourne and try and probably fail in getting a refund and sod the trip on SE!

Why does everything that should be so simple have to be so bl**dy difficult! and for the record, the next person who calls me and says "I've just sent you an e-mail" is going to find their internet connection suspended!

[thetrout]

Ok... Now I'm really cross!!!!!!!!

After a 30 minute argument with the ticket office staff they worked out that I should have only have paid ^3.80 which I was happy with.

When he printed the ticket off I decided to grab a subway and use my 2000 points I've squired over the past 12 months! Apparently you can only use them on drinks, sandwiches and snacks. I was about to call the guy a cretin because I was by this point in a very bad mood!!! What stopped me, I didn't want to go down the "are you being racist" road! Been down that one before!

So I put the ticket in the barrier to go to the platforms. "Seek assistance" look at the ticket. Despite the 30 minute argument they still got it wrong!! My ticket says: Hastings to Salisbury. I couldn't face going back to the ticket office so I just shoved my Eastbourne ticket in to get through the barrier.

Train comes into Platform and I search for First Class, it's completely full... No seats. So I decided to have a word with the guard about this as I was 90% sure that at least 50% ofthe occupants didn't have First Class tickets. I was wrong, NONE of them had First Class tickets!! Why, First Class was declassified on that service! Fortunately the Conductor saw I had a Disabled Railcard and found me a seat which I was grateful for! But since I have been on Southerns trains, It has been an unmitigated disaster!

I even ended up in a row with another female passenger over me being in First Class on my own when she and several others were standing! Although I probably didn't help matters by saying "No" when she asked me if I had a First Class ticket. But on the otherside of the coin, if I'd have said yes the chances are I'd have opened myself to even more abuse... Or she wouldn't have believed me anyway!

Anyway i'm going to stop playing the violin now... Hope everyone has a good evening!

One very pi$$ed off trout

[vacman]

Any route with AP means Advance Purchase so that route shouldn't exist on any walk up fares!

[thetrout]

Sorry Vacman, you're quite right! *slaps wrist*

What I should have said was route "LONDON NOT UNDERGROUND"

[Trowres]

What, these days, is the definition of "Underground"? (thinking here about the sections of line that are jointly worked or have changed operator etc.)

[paul7575]

What, these days, is the definition of "Underground"? (thinking here about the sections of line that are jointly worked or have changed operator etc.)

Any route operated jointly by LU and a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) which has interavailable ticketing, (eg the Bakerloo north of Queens Park), does not count as 'underground' for fares purposes.  Also, for fares purposes, London Overground is effectively a normal TOC.

Paul 

[MarkyMarkD]

So, for the avoidance of doubt, does "NOT UNDERGROUND" also mean "NOT DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway)"?

[JayMac]

Hello MarkyMarkD. A very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum. 

I'm not 100% sure of the answer to your question, but I am looking into it. You could try an email to TfL^» (Transport for London - about) or the relevant TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to find the answer, but I'm not sure you'd get anything definitive from them.

[JayMac]

On further investigation I'd say a 'NOT UNDERGROUND' ticket is not valid on DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway).

For the simple reason that there are, to the best of my knowledge, no inter-available routes on DLR services where a 'NOT UNDERGROUND' fare is offered.

Did you have a particular origin and destination in mind MarkyMarkD?

[EBrown]

I believe that the DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) counts as Underground, so your ticket wouldn't be valid.

Probably worth emailing TfL^» (Transport for London - about) to clarify.

[JayMac]

The only inter-available route I've found where DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) can be used alongside National Rail (NR^» (Network Rail - home page)) with a NR ticket is Barking - London Terminals, where passengers can choose the DLR between Limehouse and Tower Gateway if they wish.

That NR route only has 'ANY PERMITTED' fares.

[MarkyMarkD]

On further investigation I'd say a 'NOT UNDERGROUND' ticket is not valid on DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway).

For the simple reason that there are, to the best of my knowledge, no inter-available routes on DLR services where a 'NOT UNDERGROUND' fare is offered.

Did you have a particular origin and destination in mind MarkyMarkD?

Not particularly - just interested!  And thanks for the welcome.

So, for the avoidance of doubt (once again) do National Rail tickets which permit a cross-London transfer allow this via DLR as well as via Underground?  I guess the answer is yes?

[JayMac]

I'd agree. The maltese cross symbol on tickets permits, according to National Rail Enquiries:

Crossing London with tickets marked  ^'

If your journey involves travelling via, or across London to connect with another National Rail service, your ticket should include the cost of transfer on Tube, Docklands Light Railway or First Capital Connect (Thameslink Route) services between the relevant main London stations.

From: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/crossing_london.html

Via that link is a list of London Tube / DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) Stations between which single/return tickets valid for travel ^via London' may be used  -subject to route of the through journey being made.

Only cross London journeys that could logically use the DLR stations listed as interchange points are valid. One assumes (dangerous I know!) that as well as the three explicitly mentioned DLR station; Greenwich, Lewisham and Woolwich Arsenal, you can also use DLR at Bank, Limehouse, Shadwell, Stratford and West Ham if appropriate for the cross London journey.
   

 

 

[MarkyMarkD]

Thanks for clarifying. Strange that Stratford is mentioned but not Stratford International.