What discounts are there if trains run on time (but leave people behind)?

[whole diary]

[johoare]

This morning, I arrived for the 8am Maidenhead (HST^▸ (High Speed Train) - one of the few we are allowed) to Paddington non-stop.. It's usually either 8 or 7 carriages.. This morning it was a 3 car turbo..

Needless to say a lot of people didn't get on.. Nor did they get  on the 8.04 which is also non-stop to Paddington.. This train however is always full when it arrives at Maidenhead so I'm never quite sure why it stops, other than to let people off.. It certainly doesn't serve Maidenhead commuters..

The next departure (8.11) was also full to overflowing so I ended up on the 8.26 very slow stopping service..And got to work quite late...

So... all the trains ran on time.. but a lot of people were late because of what happened.. I guess FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are ok though and no compensation is due to anyone...

[eightf48544]

Fraid you are right, nothing cancelled nothing late so no compensation. Unless of course it's a persistant problem when the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) might just get round to fining FGW^▸ (First Great Western) but that's no help to anyone.

[johoare]

Brilliant...  Fortunately I am working somewhere other than London tomorrow.. otherwise I'd be worried it would happen again unexpectedly.. And I'm not sure how to find out what sort of train is being used for a particular service.. without going along to see it that is...

[johoare]

And again today it seems (from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) journey check). 

07:14 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 08:26 Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 8.
This is due to a train fault. Message Received :25/01/2012 06:14

So FGW sell all these first class East bound only tickets.. And this is one of the very very few trains it's worth using them on (no point using it on a turbo in the rush hour in general).. And instead these people and all regular passengers on this train now have to fight to get on this and subsequent trains and travel in totally unacceptable conditions...

Well I'm off to get the 7.41 which, although it only stops at Slough, manages to make the journey take 40 minutes by crawling behind a stopping train.. only FGW could manage this 

[eightf48544]

The main problem is the growth of commuting from most stations in the Thames Velly and reconciling the stopping patterns to provide most larger stations with fast through trains to London. Also there's the mix of HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and Turbos with their 35 mph maximum speed differential. Hence trying to run the Slough fasts Up the Relief. Rather than crossing them at Dolphin onto the Up Main which is fully occupied with HSTs.

It is always going to be slower than using the Main and also it is then becomes difficult to fit in all the stopping services needed to cater for the large demand from Langley inwards.  Because you are basically taking a 20 minute chunk out of the timetable as you have to have a theorectical path that allows the train to run non stop from Slough to Padd without catching up with the previous stopper. This path also leaves  around a 12 gap behind it at before the next all stations stopper can arrive Hayes from Slough. Fortunately a Heathrow Connect can be slotted in. Similarly there is an even larger gap at West Ealing between the Slough fast and Slough stopper passing which can be used for the Greenford. Which is quite slick timetabling.

The problem is if anything causes the stopper in front of the fast to run late then there is a domino effect back down the line.

You really need to graph the service to fully see the problems sloting a fast into a set of stopping trains and how the domino effect can ripple back. It's exactly the same maths as the sudden stops you get on busy motorway caused by 5 mph differential in the fast lane casuing a complete stop several miles back down the motorway. The only difference that hopefully you don't get a multiple shunt on the railway.

Is there still talk of the extra reversible  Relief Line betwen Langley and Slough?

On the refund issue pesumably Frist Class ticket holders who can't get a seat get a rebate?



   

[IndustryInsider]

And again today it seems (from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) journey check). 

07:14 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 08:26 Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 8.
This is due to a train fault. Message Received :25/01/2012 06:14

Definite HST^▸ (High Speed Train) shortages this week.  The 15:51 Paddington-Worcester Shrub Hill has also been 'Turbotuted' both days this week so far.

Is there still talk of the extra reversible  Relief Line betwen Langley and Slough?

A reversible relief line between just east of Langley and just east of West Drayton is firmly part of the Crossrail plan.  Talk of extending it westwards from Langley to Slough is, as far as I know, only talk with it being agreed that with quite major work at Langley it would be theoretically possible.  The same could be said eastwards (with major work at Hayes and Southall) as far as Wharncliffe Viaduct before Hanwell.

[bobm]

As mentioned on another thread the 16:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa failed on Saturday after leaving Didcot Parkway.  It ended up being separated with the front power car and the standard class coaches plus buffet going to St Philips Marsh and the first class coaches and the rear power car being towed to Old Oak Common.  That might be the reason.

[eightf48544]

Thanks for the info on loops Indusrty Insider I thought the Slough Langley loop was on the cards because it is relatively easy.  Basically reinstating the old goods loop from Dolphin Jn and making it the Up Relief with the existing Up Relief becoming a reversible loop. The major expense would be 90 mph turnouts and appropriate signals. 

[argg]

The main problem is the growth of commuting from most stations in the Thames Velly...   

Really?  The car parks seem emptier - is everyone cycling more?  Could it be that shorter trains make it look like there more commuters?

It was the same this morning - large numbers at Maidenhead for the 8.11 and at Slough it had to leave people behind.

Sort of off topic but fascinated to know how the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) displays define "on time".  At Twyford this morning the 8.02 was showing as due 8.05 then at two minutes past it switched to being "on time" - no train in sight, of course. Arrived a couple of minutes later.

Ironic that history tells us the standardisation of time across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) was driven by the expansion of the railways!   

[chineseJohn]

Definite HST^▸ (High Speed Train) shortages this week.  The 15:51 Paddington-Worcester Shrub Hill has also been 'Turbotuted' both days this week so far.

I think so, I've seen some strange HST formations in the last week or two.
- 08:34 Reading to Paddington (from PLymouth) had a standard buffet and an express cafe coach (not open) (coach B)
- 08:34 last wednesday - had a first/buffet car adjacent to the front engine with the a out of action sign on it
- some HST's I've been on have only had 4 standard class coaches

[JayMac]

It would appear that Crossrail can't come soon enough.....

[thetrout]

I sympathise entirely Jo

I recall the last Sunday before Christmas at Bath Spa, needed to take the 18:07 to Bruton. Train came in and because the Portsmouth Habour was late everyone piled onto this 2 coach for Stations to Westbury. This left some very cross passengers (Myself included) who wanted stations on the Weymouth line. The look on some of the passengers faces when they were told that the next service wasn't until 21:07 was a picture!!

When I asked if they were going to provide alternative transport I was told a very blunt NO! Fortunately the ticket office was still open so I went downstairs and explained and the chap issued me with a refund. They didn't seem in the slightest bit concerned that we had to wait 3 hours. I was fuming!

[Worcester_Passenger]

And again today it seems (from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) journey check). 

And again today (Thursday Jan 26).

07:14 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 08:26 Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 8.
This is due to a train fault. Message Received :26/01/2012 06:00

[johoare]

Fortunately I'm not going into London for the rest of this week.. I will be asking for a refund for the 1st class part of my ticket (not sure I'll get it though)..

Yesterday I got a seat in first class on the 7.41 from Maidenhead but spent the journey from Slough onwards with the whole of first class packed with standing people too so not a pleasant experience.. And even with a 40 minute timetabled journey (which I worked out to be an average speed of approx 35 miles per hour!!) the train still managed to be late.. And because it arrives at Platform 14 that added another couple of minutes on.. I do hope it's sorted out by Monday..

[Phil]

There's been a reaction to this story on Twitter this morning. The invariably helpful @FGW^▸ (First Great Western) person responded to complaints with (for example)

@LadyDoof If we had extra carriages then we certainly would. We have had to shorten some trains rather than cancel services altogether

and

@jeremy_gregg It's not perm. We have 2 HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) out of service at the mo. Hoping things will be back to normal for Monday