Train Fares: Taken for a ride? Reaction to Panorama programme

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

Just a general thought too.. why do people take the train or pay the fares if there is a much cheaper/easier alternative to their journey 

I may open a tin of worms here, but I feel it should be said...

Maybe because some of us have no choice?? If you're like me, who cannot drive because of disability (something that may very well be permanent). Then trains and buses are more or less the only option. Taxi is an option for a shorter journey, but I don't have ^300 to spend most weekends to go to London and back again!

Yes I think some fares are far too expensive for the reflection of the journey. The argument for EU^» (European Union - about) travel being cheaper though definitely stacks up in my option. In Spain, you can travel from Alicante to Lorca for 5.05 Euros each way, a distance of 90 Miles. That price applies any time during the day. Now if we look at Frome to Totnes, a distance of about 98 Miles, you're looking at ^30.50!! and that ticket you can only use off peak!

[BerkshireBugsy]

Just a general thought too.. why do people take the train or pay the fares if there is a much cheaper/easier alternative to their journey 

I may open a tin of worms here, but I feel it should be said...

Maybe because some of us have no choice?? If you're like me, who cannot drive because of disability (something that may very well be permanent). Then trains and buses are more or less the only option. Taxi is an option for a shorter journey, but I don't have ^300 to spend most weekends to go to London and back again!

Very good point.

I do have the choice of catching the train or driving to work.

If I drive, it takes a variable amount of time - and stress - to get to work. But sometimes, notably when Reading is undergoing major engineering works I have no choice to drive and I really don't like it (apart from the fact it allows me to get to the local-ish model railway shop which I can't normally do)



Edited to fix quote marks. bignosemac.

[Tim]

The fares manual needs to be ripped up and we need to start again.

Trouble is if you work from that basis that the fare income must remain the same (which I expect Government will do), there will be winners and loosers.  So there will at the very least need to be some pahsing in of a new system, even if you could devise one.

You would have to phase it all in gradually.  That would be fine.  You could also make it approximately reveue neutral,  That would be fine too.  The problem would be how can imposing somthing like this work with our current franchise model?  You'd end up paying huge amount of money we don;t have to the franchisees as compensation for changes.   ironically, one we had the new system in place, the franchisees would know what they were bidding against and their wouldn;t be a problem. 

[broadgage]

I can the logic in charging more at peak times, and less when space is available.
I can not see any sense whatsoever in different fares according to when the ticket is purchased.
Why on earth should ANY discounted tickets be sold for trains that are likely to be overcrowded ?
And likewise, why should last minute  travel on a lightly loaded off peak train be so expensive ?
I sometimes need to use the 18-03 from Paddington at short notice, I accept that this is a busy service and the fares should be relatively high, but I resent having to stand whilst those with discounted tickets get reservations.

Anytime fares are among the highest in the world, and the various discounted tickets of little use if ones plans are unknown.
Another problem with heavily discounted tickets is that most are restricted  to a particular train, with a "fine" of hundreds of pounds if this is missed. Petrol does not cost 10 times as much if purchased or used a little later than expected.
Driving does not cost 5 times as much if decided on at the last minute.

[Super Guard]

Just a general thought too.. why do people take the train or pay the fares if there is a much cheaper/easier alternative to their journey 

I may open a tin of worms here, but I feel it should be said...

Maybe because some of us have no choice?? If you're like me, who cannot drive because of disability (something that may very well be permanent). Then trains and buses are more or less the only option. Taxi is an option for a shorter journey, but I don't have ^300 to spend most weekends to go to London and back again!

That's fair comment re: disability, I think BB illustrates the point that I was trying to make better:

I do have the choice of catching the train or driving to work.

If I drive, it takes a variable amount of time - and stress - to get to work. But sometimes, notably when Reading is undergoing major engineering works I have no choice to drive and I really don't like it (apart from the fact it allows me to get to the local-ish model railway shop which I can't normally do)



Edited to fix quote marks. bignosemac.

[StuartStIves]

Panorama missed a trick here - fancy not mentioning XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s doubling of turn up and go fares due to the new 0930 restriction.  Cross Country's official response to my complaint is repeated below (when is a fare increase not a fare increase? When there is a change in restrictions to make Off Peak travel more consistent!):

"Question:  Why has Cross Country found it necessary to charge twice as much as the old fare for exactly the same service? 
Answer:  We are not charging any more for the service - this fare has always been in place.  We have however, changed the restriction for the Off-peak fare to make Off-peak travel more consistent across our network.  This is in line with our Off-peak travel policy. 
   
Question:  You have not explained why the cheaper option you suggested is not shown on Cross Country^s website.
Answer:  Split ticket journeys are not always the available for all journeys.  Further to this, the National Conditions of Carriage have strict conditions relating to when a combination of tickets can be used.  Therefore it is only appropriate to sell tickets valid for the entire journey.   
 
I appreciate these may not be the answers you want to hear and I am sorry if you are disappointed."