Intercity Express Programme (IEP) - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

We will indeed.

[broadgage]

Hitachi would have to replace any defective units during turn-rounds. They are contracted to have x number of properly working units in service each day, or they payca penalty

I suspect that Hitachi will wriggle out of at least some of the requirements regarding reliability and the provision of spare units to replace failures, on the grounds that we are using the trains other than as was intended, due to the increased diesel mileage.
I expect that Hitachi will have better lawyers than we have, and that therefore "partnering and working together" will be judged a better option than litigation.
The outcome will no doubt that we pay for a few extra units, eventually. Meanwhile a "few" trains can be reduced to 5 car.

[John R]

It's not a case of wriggling out.  If the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) want to change the goalposts in terms of how the units are used for the first couple of years, Hitachi are perfectly entitled to renegotiate the contract. And as you say, their lawyers (with the help of their engineers) will make sure that they are fully protected against incurring penalties because the units are being worked in a different way to previously contracted. And so they should.

[TonyK]

True - no wriggling would be needed, although we could expect at least some squirming on the other side of the desk.

[broadgage]

Where will surfboards be held in the summer on Newquay services?

Irrelevant in the near future.  As discussed many times previously, IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) are not going to be used on the Devon and Cornwall services.

Paul

So where are the surfboards to be stowed, now that we know that services to Devon and Cornwall are to be downgraded to DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) very similar to the IEPs.

[ChrisB]

In the bike spaces, I guess

[paul7575]

Where will surfboards be held in the summer on Newquay services?

Irrelevant in the near future.  As discussed many times previously, IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) are not going to be used on the Devon and Cornwall services.

Paul

So where are the surfboards to be stowed, now that we know that services to Devon and Cornwall are to be downgraded to DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) very similar to the IEPs.

I expect they'll have to think of another means of transport.  I don't really care, my original answer was made over four years ago and was correct at that time.

Paul

[Worcester_Passenger]

During the winter, Eurostar operate a couple of trains to the French Alps for the skiing.

These trains have a similar problem - where do you put your skis? Not everybody brings skis of course - most people hire them at the resort.

But when we travelled on this service, Eurostar had a very neat solution. The first pair of seats inside each coach were covered in a plastic bag exactly like the ones that your garage uses to protect your car's seats from the mechanic's overalls. Except that their plastic bags had big icons of skis.

The booking system must have had these pairs of seats blocked out - which is easy to do on a booking-only operation like Eurostar.

But worth a thought...

[broadgage]

Where will surfboards be held in the summer on Newquay services?

Irrelevant in the near future.  As discussed many times previously, IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) are not going to be used on the Devon and Cornwall services.

Paul

So where are the surfboards to be stowed, now that we know that services to Devon and Cornwall are to be downgraded to DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) very similar to the IEPs.

I expect they'll have to think of another means of transport.  I don't really care, my original answer was made over four years ago and was correct at that time.

Paul

I fully understand that your reply was made some years ago and was indeed correct at the time that you made the reply.
I do however find it interesting, that a lot of criticism of the new DMUs was deflected by assurances that they were not to be used on the longer distance or arguably more prestigious services.
And then after a few years the downgrade spread to these services also. Initially it was suggested that the AT300s for the far west might be of an improved design and they COULD have a buffet. We now know that that they wont. I consider it probable that enhanced luggage space for surfboards is still "possible" but wont actually be provided.

And yes I agree that customers with surfboards will probably have to find other transport.

[TonyK]

In truth, surfboards will not be high on the lists of things to do at IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) headquarters just now.

[Bmblbzzz]

In the 19th century, some trains had a carriage coach – or was it a coach carriage? – to carry horse-drawn carriages. A sort of equine motor rail. I'm not sure whether the horses were conveyed with the coach or in a stable carriage (one hopes it wasn't unstable) or you hired fresh horses at the destination station. The last option would seem simplest and provide lots of enterprise opportunities. I mention this to say that transporting bulky items on trains has always demanded some sort of dedicated solution. I'm sure it would be no problem to carry surfboards to Cornwall if you could afford to reserve a whole carriage; except that ToCs nowadays wouldn't have the spare rolling stock.

[broadgage]

Horse drawn carriages when conveyed by rail were lashed down on open wagons, the occupants travelled within the horse drawn carriage in the very early days but the drawbacks of this soon became clear, and passengers travelled in a normal railway carriage.

Horses if conveyed, were placed in an enclosed horse van. Horses cant be conveyed at significant speed in open vehicles as they are apt to panic.

To return to the present, it might well be reasonable to charge for conveying surfboards and other bulky articles such as bicycles. To carry useful numbers of such items would need a guards van though and new trains are not thus equipped.

[didcotdean]

Horse drawn carriages when conveyed by rail were lashed down on open wagons, the occupants travelled within the horse drawn carriage in the very early days but the drawbacks of this soon became clear, and passengers travelled in a normal railway carriage.

On the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) they were for a period only allowed to take seats in the company carriages if there was sufficient room otherwise they had to stay in their own. Whatever, the passengers had to pay for first class tickets, their servants had to have second class tickets and the grooms travelling with the horses third class.

The first mention of a railway journey in a Dickens novel is within Mr Dombey's own coach on a train to Birmingham.

[Bmblbzzz]

To return to the present, it might well be reasonable to charge for conveying surfboards and other bulky articles such as bicycles. To carry useful numbers of such items would need a guards van though and new trains are not thus equipped.

Yes, I think most cyclists, and probably surfers too, would be prepared to pay a small amount to have their bikes transported in a safe, easy-access guards van. Certainly more convenient than dangly spaces, especially if you have luggage on your bike, are short, etc. Whether passengers with bulky suitcases, exceeding the current maximum permitted dimensions, would be prepared to do the same, I find less likely.

[Adelante_CCT]

Class 800 heading down to Plymouth tonight by the looks of it:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O32380/2016/10/03/advanced