Intercity Express Programme (IEP) - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Sticky back plastic I heard.

[ChrisB]

Press Release from the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)....

Taxpayer to foot ^3 million a week bill for trains that can't be used while guards, catering and fleet jobs face the axe

RAIL UNION RMT demanded urgent action this morning after it emerged at the weekend that the taxpayer is set to be lumped with a bill of nearly ^3 million a week to pay Japanese fleet supplier Hitachi for trains that cannot be used on the Great Western routes due to the electrification fiasco.

Hitachi and the Government are known to be exploring a fiercely expensive and problematic option of retro fitting diesel engines to the new fleet as a stop gap but if that proves unworkable the taxpayer will still have to pay Hitachi ^400,000 a day - regardless of whether the trains are used or simply left standing idle. 

RMT has been engaged in a long running dispute with Great Western over the threat to safety, jobs and passenger services that is part of the current fleet proposals.

General Secretary Mick Cash said;

"Our dispute is over the threat to guards jobs and train safety from the door control and despatch procedures on the new trains and we are also fighting similar threats to catering operations and fleet jobs.

"It is now clear that there is no shortage of money to waste on keeping trains idle so there is no excuse for not investing in jobs, safety and services.

"RMT intends to take this issue directly to the Government now with a demand that they end this shambles and protect both staff and the travelling public from wholly unnecessary cuts."

[Timmer]

More on what ChrisB has posted above from the Bath Chronicle website and doubtless other Local World media outlets:

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Taxpayers-face-3m-week-new-electric-trains-stuck/story-28055061-detail/story.html

Taxpayers might have to pay nearly ^3 million a week for new electric trains that will be stuck in storage if the track is not ready in time.

The ^3 billion fleet is due to run on the Great Western Railway from May 2017 but it is now likely that the necessary track upgrades will be delayed.
The Government is obliged to rent the new trains whether the track is ready or not, under a deal between the Department for Transport and manufacturer Hitachi.
Now a document released to a Commons inquiry has revealed that taxpayers will face a bill of up to ^400,000 per day ^2.8 million each week ^ that the London to Swansea line is "not available" to the new Class 801 trains.

It reads: "New electric trains are due to enter service on the route from May 2017, as part of the Intercity Express Programme (IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)).
"The department could incur train rental costs of up to ^400,000 per day if the electrified lines are not available in time."
The document emerged as Philip Rutnam, the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s permanent secretary, revealed growing alarm over hold-ups to the Great Western upgrade, in evidence to the public accounts committee (PAC).

MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) were furious to learn that the cost of the project has mushroomed from ^1.6 billion a year ago - and ^874 million in 2013 - to between ^2.5 billion and ^2.8 billion.
But the inquiry was also told it was now "highly likely" that the timetable to electrify to Bristol by 2016, to Cardiff by 2017 and to Swansea by 2018 would be missed.

Mr Rutnam said: "The department, as customer on behalf of taxpayers and passengers, is liable to pay for those trains whether the electrification is ready or not.

"We are clearly very concerned indeed at the prospect that we may have electric trains designed for the Great Western Railway, to bring many, many benefits to passengers, and not be able to use them."

Later, the permanent secretary added: "The electrification has overshot and there is real risk that it will not be ready in time."

Meg Hillier, the PAC's Labour chairwoman, expressed astonishment at the idea there would be "trains potentially with no track to run on".

And, on the overall handling of the project, she said: "It's unbelievable and it's unacceptable that there was such poor planning."

Both Mark Carne, Network Rail's chief executive, and Richard Price, chief executive of the Office of Rail and Road, the regulator, "fell asleep on the job", she added.

Mr Rutnam said the Dft was exploring both "commercial and technical" options to avoid the ^400,000-a-day penalty, adding: "This is right at the top of the department's priority list".
The penalties would not kick in until February 2018, because the first batch of IEP trains - from 2017 - would be 'hybrid', using both diesel and electric power.

Mick Cash, general secretary of rail union the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers), described the situation as a "shambles".

He said: "Our dispute is over the threat to guards jobs and train safety from the door control and despatch procedures on the new trains and we are also fighting similar threats to catering operations and fleet jobs.

"It is now clear that there is no shortage of money to waste on keeping trains idle so there is no excuse for not investing in jobs, safety and services.

"RMT intends to take this issue directly to the Government now with a demand that they end this shambles and protect both staff and the travelling public from wholly unnecessary cuts."

[SandTEngineer]

I'm absolutely lost for words. Where are the required resignations of the top people concerned. Do people not fall on their swords any more?

It's looking like we have enough material now to commission a new series of Thomas the Tank Engine 

[TonyK]

I'm absolutely lost for words. Where are the required resignations of the top people concerned. Do people not fall on their swords any more?

It's looking like we have enough material now to commision a new series of Thomas the Tank Engine 

Or Monty Pythons Flying Circus!

Calm down, SandTEngineer. a crucial part of the diatribe says:

Taxpayers might have to pay nearly ^3 million a week for new electric trains that will be stuck in storage if the track is not ready in time.

Or to put it another way, if my auntie had nuts, she'd be my uncle.

If the upgrade to Bristol is completed by January 2017, then IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will treat us all to the benefits of electric travel. The bi-mode jobs are coming first anyway, aren't they? So long as all is well by February 2018, then away we go. That's over 2 years away.

Away with the rose-tinted glasses for now.

[PhilWakely]

MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) were furious to learn that the cost of the project has mushroomed from ^1.6 billion a year ago - and ^874 million in 2013 - to between ^2.5 billion and ^2.8 billion.
But the inquiry was also told it was now "highly likely" that the timetable to electrify to Bristol by 2016, to Cardiff by 2017 and to Swansea by 2018 would be missed.

I hope there happens to be a friendly Chinese government around when HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) hits the buffers headlines in 2048 or whenever - not that I shall be around to be concerned 

[patch38]

I may still be around in 2048, but apparently only if I give up bacon.

[TonyK]

I may still be around in 2048, but apparently only if I give up bacon.

I'm sticking to beer. It's made from flowers and cereals - practically muesli.

[Bmblbzzz]

Beer, wine and cider ^ got to be three of your five a day right there!

[Rhydgaled]

Calm down, SandTEngineer. a crucial part of the diatribe says:

Taxpayers might have to pay nearly ^3 million a week for new electric trains that will be stuck in storage if the track is not ready in time.

Or to put it another way, if my auntie had nuts, she'd be my uncle.

If the upgrade to Bristol is completed by January 2017, then IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will treat us all to the benefits of electric travel. The bi-mode jobs are coming first anyway, aren't they? So long as all is well by February 2018, then away we go. That's over 2 years away.

Calm down?? Yes and no. Yes, the bi-modes are coming first, and as long as London-Bristol (via Bath and via Parkway) is done by the time the psudeo-electrics start arriving there shouldn't be a problem with units standing idle. The 'no' is that, as far as I know, taxpayers WILL have to pay nearly ^3m per week regardless of whether or not the track is ready (assuming that is the cost of the trains), the only difference is if the wires haven't reached Bristol we won't be getting anything for that ^3m.

I'm absolutely lost for words. Where are the required resignations of the top people concerned. Do people not fall on their swords any more?

Ah, the joys of the part-private, part-public railway. There is no clear accoutablity and everyone can blame each other (although I think in the case of the cost of these trains the finger points towards the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)).

[John R]

If the upgrade to Bristol is completed by January 2017, then IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will treat us all to the benefits of electric travel. The bi-mode jobs are coming first anyway, aren't they? So long as all is well by February 2018, then away we go. That's over 2 years away.

Absolutely no hope of the wires reaching to Bristol in 15 months.  The best that might happen is wires as far as Swindon and then the bi-modes run on diesel from there to Temple Meads (and therefore at lower speed as far as Box). But even that is I suspect unlikely.

[ChrisB]

The 'no' is that, as far as I know, taxpayers WILL have to pay nearly ^3m per week regardless of whether or not the track is ready (assuming that is the cost of the trains), the only difference is if the wires haven't reached Bristol we won't be getting anything for that ^3m.

Err, I don't think so. The ^3m/week falls on the taxpayer because the wires aren't ready & GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) can't run them. If the wires are ready & they can be run, then the trains are with GWR along with the ^3m/week hire cost, surely? (Or whatever deal the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has done with GWR for these costs to be covered).

[Red Squirrel]

Or to put it another way, if my auntie had nuts, she'd be my uncle.

Germaine Greer has an opinion on this topic, but perhaps this isn't the place to delve into that one...

My auntie has nuts, but then again she is a squirrel.

[Rhydgaled]

The 'no' is that, as far as I know, taxpayers WILL have to pay nearly ^3m per week regardless of whether or not the track is ready (assuming that is the cost of the trains), the only difference is if the wires haven't reached Bristol we won't be getting anything for that ^3m.

Err, I don't think so. The ^3m/week falls on the taxpayer because the wires aren't ready & GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) can't run them. If the wires are ready & they can be run, then the trains are with GWR along with the ^3m/week hire cost, surely? (Or whatever deal the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has done with GWR for these costs to be covered).

Whether or not GWR can run them, I doubt who pays the hire cost will change (unless there is something in the franchise agreement which lets GWR wriggle out of paying it, but I'd be supprised if there is). Taxpayer pays via GWR either way is my guess.

If the upgrade to Bristol is completed by January 2017, then IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) will treat us all to the benefits of electric travel. The bi-mode jobs are coming first anyway, aren't they? So long as all is well by February 2018, then away we go. That's over 2 years away.

Absolutely no hope of the wires reaching to Bristol in 15 months.  The best that might happen is wires as far as Swindon and then the bi-modes run on diesel from there to Temple Meads (and therefore at lower speed as far as Box). But even that is I suspect unlikely.

Wires as far as Swindon by December 2016? Then Oxford, Newbury and Bristol in Dec 2017, Cardiff in Dec 2018 and Swansea in Dec 2019? If that happens, the key phases will each be a year late, and GWR would probably be able to use the new trains. If the wires are more than a year late then it might get messy, but hopefully they aren't more than a year behind with the wiring.

[ChrisB]

Likely to be only the bit above what theyre currently paying for their HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)....I can't see the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) giving GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) free trains to run around.