Intercity Express Programme (IEP) - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

We used to have the facility of a turbo being able to come into platform 1 at Oxford behind a standing HST^▸ (High Speed Train). However there was a minor collision some years ago when the turbo hit the HST and since then an approaching turbo is usually held outside Oxford until the HST has departed meaning that Cotswold Line travellers could lose their Oxford connection.

[Lee]

Hitachi is to move its global rail business from Japan to the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26657455

[broadgage]

Hitachi is to move its global rail business from Japan to the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26657455

Certainly good news on the employment front, and arguably a vote of confidence in the UK.
I still have misgivings regarding the design of the new trains, but that is a seperate issue.

[Lee]

Hitachi have put a new global rail leadership structure in place as well - http://www.railnetwork.info/article.php?article_id=5742

[JayMac]

A video news report from ITV News showing some detail of the interior of the Intercity Express Programme trains:

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2014-05-28/final-designs-revealed-for-new-intercity-swansea-to-london-trains/

ITV News can exclusively reveal the final designs of a new generation of InterCity trains soon to take to the tracks across South Wales.

Work is underway on the first of hundreds of new bullet-style carriages in Japan for Great Western trains at a cost of almost six billion pounds.

With extra seats and space they should help ease the overcrowding crisis suffered by many passengers.

They will run on the mainline from London Paddington to Cardiff and through to Swansea.

Full size mock-ups of several carriages were secretly built to get the views of watchdogs and the rail industry - and the final design is about to be approved by the Government.

ITV Meridian's Mike Pearse was given exclusive access to see the train of the future.

And on a similar theme from the Oxford Mail:

High-speed shape of things to come

MEET the new face of express train travel in Oxford, Didcot and the Cotswolds.

This is the nose of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains which will operate Great Western high-speed services between Oxfordshire, London, Bristol and South Wales from 2017.

Construction of the first of four prototype trains is now under way at Kasado in Japan, at a factory owned by Hitachi.

The company, which made the Class 395 Javelin trains used on high-speed commuter services running between Kent and London, is building a plant at Newton Aycliffe, in County Durham, to manufacture the rest of the fleet.

The first prototype is due to be completed next month and will arrive in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) to start tests in the autumn. High-speed trial running is expected to take place next year between Didcot and Reading, once overhead electric wires are installed there as part of the Great Western main line electrification programme.

A full-size mock-up of parts of the train was produced by DCA Design International, of Leamington Spa, to help develop the final design.

Staff from First Great Western have been involved in the project, with drivers asked to give their views on the layout of the cab. As well as the nose cone and driving cab, the mock-up includes standard and first class seating areas, toilets and the luggage and cycle racks which will be installed in the vestibules of coaches.

Two versions of the 125mph trains are on order for Great Western services, 21 nine-coach Class 800 electric trains and 36 five-coach Class 801 bi-mode, electro-diesel units. These will use electricity from overhead power cables where these are installed, then switch to underfloor diesel engines on non-electrified routes, such as the Cotswold Line between Oxford and Worcester.

After a recent visit to DCA^s workshops in Warwick, Rail Minister Stephen Hammond, above, said: ^I was very impressed with the mock-up of the Class 800/801 train, and interested to hear about the lengths that the designers have gone to in ensuring that the views of passengers and other stakeholders have been included.

^The new trains will provide passengers with an improved travelling experience. I look forward to seeing them come into operation.^

Draft seating designs show the nine-coach trains will have about 630 seats. The five-coach sets will have about 320 seats and will be able to couple together to create a 640-seat train for busy peak services.

Another 12 five-coach electric trains, 10 five-coach bi-mode trains, and 13 nine-car bi-mode trains are also on order for the East Coast rail franchise, which links London with Yorkshire, the North East and Scotland.

The IEP fleet was ordered by the Government under a ^5.8bn private finance initiative contract with Agility Trains, a consortium of Hitachi and British infrastructure management firm John Laing.

[trainbuff]

Lovely. Though nowhere for a Guard (train Manager) and catering to be trolleys only I believe. When staff were involved they mean only drivers! Did no-one ask catering staff or Train Managers. I guess not as it looks like they have no input. GW^▸ (Great Western) mainline Driver Only in future with trolley catering and no hot food. Delightful. At least I can have a warm cup of tea after other customers have caused disruptions.

And that is quite a cynical.....though I would argue......more accurate opinion

[Surrey 455]

Those seats don't look they were designed for long journeys. Perhaps I'm wrong but they don't look very comfortable.

[Electric train]

Those seats don't look they were designed for long journeys. Perhaps I'm wrong but they don't look very comfortable.

If they are similar to the seats in the 395 then I have found them quite comfortable even on a 2 hour trip London to Ramsgate

[broadgage]

Lovely. Though nowhere for a Guard (train Manager) and catering to be trolleys only I believe. When staff were involved they mean only drivers! Did no-one ask catering staff or Train Managers. I guess not as it looks like they have no input. GW^▸ (Great Western) mainline Driver Only in future with trolley catering and no hot food. Delightful. At least I can have a warm cup of tea after other customers have caused disruptions.

And that is quite a cynical.....though I would argue......more accurate opinion

Agree.
Years ago I expressed very negative views about the then proposed new trains, in particular regarding seating comfort, train length, lack of facing seats at tables, catering provision and so on.
It would appear that these negative views were largely correct.
Train length, most of the new trains are shorter than HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)
Catering reduced to a trolley.
Seating is mainly bus style with only limited tables.

And yes I know that the new "fun sized" trains can be coupled together to give a full length train, as was promised with the wretched voyagers. Two short trains coupled together are better than a single short train of course, but inferior to a proper full length inter city train. And the voyager experience suggests that single units will be the norm and double ones the exception.
Seats certainly look basic and more typical of outer suburban stock than intercity trains.

[TonyK]

I flew home from Corfu recently on a brand new A321 with similar-looking seats. They were perfectly comfortable for a 3^ hour journey, and apparently much lighter than the "conventional" style, leading to big savings in fuel.

[eightf48544]

We seem to have become obssessed with cramming as many people as possible into the shortest possible train. Let's hope the fares fall in line with the discomfort. Squeasy Trains!

[IndustryInsider]

Lovely. Though nowhere for a Guard (train Manager) and catering to be trolleys only I believe. When staff were involved they mean only drivers! Did no-one ask catering staff or Train Managers. I guess not as it looks like they have no input. GW^▸ (Great Western) mainline Driver Only in future with trolley catering and no hot food. Delightful. At least I can have a warm cup of tea after other customers have caused disruptions.

And that is quite a cynical.....though I would argue......more accurate opinion

Agree.
Years ago I expressed very negative views about the then proposed new trains, in particular regarding seating comfort, train length, lack of facing seats at tables, catering provision and so on.
It would appear that these negative views were largely correct.
Train length, most of the new trains are shorter than HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train)
Catering reduced to a trolley.
Seating is mainly bus style with only limited tables.

And yes I know that the new "fun sized" trains can be coupled together to give a full length train, as was promised with the wretched voyagers. Two short trains coupled together are better than a single short train of course, but inferior to a proper full length inter city train. And the voyager experience suggests that single units will be the norm and double ones the exception.
Seats certainly look basic and more typical of outer suburban stock than intercity trains.

Just a reminder of my fairly recent post at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13396.msg146808#msg146808

Basically stating that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have requested a kitchen for the use of both classes of travel.  If anything released in the last few days absolutely refutes that then fair enough.  Otherwise I'd suggest you wait until the trains are delivered and you can see them in the flesh before making such 'told-you-so' statements.

[trainbuff]

That would be good news if the case IndustryInsider. Though a kitchen does not mean Buffet. Voyagers have catering areas/kitchens but they still have trollies. Any news on Guards on trains then or am I correct in saying that they are set up with cameras at every door and TV screens in the drivers cab, so as Driver Only Operation is available

[ChrisB]

Trollies sell more than buffets do. Fact.

[IndustryInsider]

That would be good news if the case IndustryInsider. Though a kitchen does not mean Buffet. Voyagers have catering areas/kitchens but they still have trollies. Any news on Guards on trains then or am I correct in saying that they are set up with cameras at every door and TV screens in the drivers cab, so as Driver Only Operation is available

True that a kitchen area doesn't mean a buffet necessarily, but I'd have thought it would be logical to have a buffet given that it would presumably be in the middle of the train at a location where passengers will be moving through, and not, as on a Voyager, at the ends.

My own personal view on catering is that shorter distance services and a trolley service is fine, longer distance and a trolley and buffet service becomes very desirable.  The Pullman service also seems to be popular on the limited number of services it works, so I'd like to see that extended to one of the premier Swansea trains again, but it may well be seen as too much of an inconvenience to provide on an IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) (by that I mean a whole fleet geared up for Pullman facilities and only a couple of trains a day justified in providing it) and it will just be retained on the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) that will continue to work the Cornish services.

As far as I know the IEPs are designed for DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) working, and have been since the very first design draft.  Whether that means they will normally operate as so is something I personally doubt, and the unions will fight tooth and nail to avoid that happening I'm sure.  There's nothing in theory stopping Turbo's operating DOO on the Cotswold/Gatwick lines, but there's no sign of the necessary platform equipment being installed, so just because something has been fitted doesn't necessarily mean it will be used.