Intercity Express Programme (IEP) - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

Surely it is now widely agreed that there needs to be a decent sized van for luggage and bikes!

Says who?  And where are they widely agreeing it? 

[ellendune]

Surely it is now widely agreed that there needs to be a decent sized van for luggage and bikes!

Says who?  And where are they widely agreeing it? 

If cyclists want larger trains to carry their bikes are they prepared to pay for the additional cost, or are they expecting the rest of us to do so?

[Btline]

Or the gov pays to encourage cycle travel to improve the environ and cure congestion!

Guard's vans are heavily used where they still exist (holiday trains, Uni term start/end dates).
Having them also means you can cram more seats in the saloons.

[broadgage]

I can't See any point of a 5 car set, I would of thought they learnt the lessons when they bought the Adelante.

Guy

Agree entirely, we arguably have enough short trains, it is proper full length inter city trains that are needed.
There will of course be some services for which a short train will suffice, but refurbished voyagers and adelantes will be around for many years yet.
Whilst of course short trains can be coupled together, this is often less satisfactory than a full length train.
2 trains each of 5 cars will probably cost more than a single 10 car one.
2 trains each of 5 cars will either have fewer seats or be longer than a single 10 car one.

There is more chance of proper catering being viable on a 10 car train rather than on 2 short ones.
Less staff will normaly be needed for a proper 10 car train than for 2 short ones.

[Btline]

Where will surfboards be held in the summer on Newquay services?

Agree that the 5 car should be axed. If a train is empty offer lower fares (advance/super off peak) for the section that is quieter.

Look at the roads, whilst we have congestion, there is NO excuse for short or empty trains.

[paul7575]

Where will surfboards be held in the summer on Newquay services?

Irrelevant in the near future.  As discussed many times previously, IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) are not going to be used on the Devon and Cornwall services.

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Purely coincidental, but possibly a little worrying for Cotswold Line growth:

Total number of proposed standard class seats on a 5-car IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.):  270
Total number of seats on a Class 165 Turbo: 270

Though of course most Cotswold Line services are/will be in the hands of Class 180s (226 standard class seats + 16 tip-ups) or Class 166s (243 standard class seats).  The First Class provision is better with the proposed IEP layout giving 45 first class seats, compared with 42 on a Class 180, 32 on a Class 166 and 16 on a Class 165.

Given that running two IEP's on the Cotswold Line will be impossible, there's not really a huge increase in seating to cover a whole generation of growth, though it could be partially offset by running more trains with further re-doubling.

[Btline]

True, i forgot about D+C. But there is still no where near enough luggage space. I am actually shocked, as I would have thought the penny would have dropped by now...

Regarding the Cotswold line - this indeed is worrying. At peak times, I can't see any more trains, so the only extra ones will be during the day, when the trains are less full.

Of course, the Thames Turbos can be wedged at weekends and on shoulder peak services, hence the use of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train).

Having trains splitting at Oxford will increase journey times and decrease reliability. Plus how often will a unit get poached for another route, leaving a 5 car all the way to London? Why not use 8 car units, SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) and cheaper tickets to sell the seats?

Can we keep the HSTs please?

[CLPGMS]

In addition to the question of short platforms on the Cotswold Line and the need for full HST^▸ (High Speed Train) type diesel trains during peak times, has anyone addressed the question of platform clearance at stations which are on a curve - e.g. Worcester Foregate Street?  The extra 3 metres coach length could cause problems, especially with the gap between the train and the platform.

[paul7575]

... has anyone addressed the question of platform clearance at stations which are on a curve - e.g. Worcester Foregate Street?  The extra 3 metres coach length could cause problems, especially with the gap between the train and the platform.

Gauge clearance for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) on the following GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) sections and other associated routes:
Core routes:
o London to Cardiff/Swansea;
o London to Bristol/Weston Super Mare/Taunton;
o London to Gloucester/Cheltenham;
o London to Oxford/Worcester/Hereford; and
o London to Newbury/Westbury/Exeter;
Diversionary routes
o Westbury to Bath Spa;
o Gloucester to Severn Tunnel Junction;
o Cardiff to Bridgend via Barry;
o Castle Cary to Exeter via Yeovil; and
o Reading to Waterloo.

...is a CP4^▸ (Control Period 4 - the five year period between 2009 and 2014) enhancement project, with design activities ongoing, and work on the ground starting Dec 13.  So yes, it has been addressed.

Paul

[Btline]

Great, so they'll have to shave off some of the platform at WOF. So how big will that make the gap? At the moment it's around 2 feet wide and 2 feet up on platform one.

Why not just keep the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and 180s?

[broadgage]

Great, so they'll have to shave off some of the platform at WOF. So how big will that make the gap? At the moment it's around 2 feet wide and 2 feet up on platform one.

Why not just keep the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and 180s?

I would presume that any excesive difference in height between platform and train will be eliminated as part of the works.
Not much can be done though about the horizontal gap which will indeed be worse with longer vehicles.

[stebbo]

I think the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will be life expired ere too long, although I think they were/have been brilliant. But there's no reason decent size guard's vans (or equivalent) couldn't be built in. Trouble is nobody cares about cyclists and there's no mail/parcels to carry any more because it mostly goes by road/air. Mad......

[broadgage]

I think the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will be life expired ere too long, although I think they were/have been brilliant. But there's no reason decent size guard's vans (or equivalent) couldn't be built in. Trouble is nobody cares about cyclists and there's no mail/parcels to carry any more because it mostly goes by road/air. Mad......

I do not see why the HSTs should soon become life expired, the power cars have recently be re-engined, and the coaches are said to be in good condition, not just comesticly, but structurally.

I agree entirely that it is a mistake to build the new trains without decent sized gaurds vans.
Cycling is increasing as road fuel costs rise, congestion worsens, and the health benifits of cycling become known.
On commuter routes it is perhaps reasonable to suggest that commuters should keep a cycle at the station, or perhaps one at each end, or make use of a hired cycle.
On longer distance routes used by holidaymakers this is not feasible and more cyclists will wish to travell with their machines.
Providing space does cost money, and I dont see why cyclists should not pay for taking a cycle on a train.
Similar arguments apply to surfboards and other bulky articles.
IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) it is reasonable to charge for conveyance of such, but to effectively prohibit it is unreasonable.

Also due to rising road fuel costs, and enviromental concerns, it is probable that mail, light freight and parcells will return to the rails, during the life of the new trains.

This is also an argument for full length trains.
Providing a proper van on a 10 car train seems reasonable.
Providing 2 such on two 5 car units coupled together, not only wastes space but could result in time wasting confusion as to in which van articles have been/should be stowed.

[dog box]

As i read on another forum......The Future is Plastic and not very Fantastic