Intercity Express Programme (IEP) - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

Looks like contract for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) wont be signed til at least the end of July.

Also from WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) tonight is that the for the new GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise holder has been delayed til Jan/Feb2013.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Also from WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) tonight is that the for the new GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise holder has been delayed til Jan/Feb2013.

Sorry, anthony215: I don't quite follow that? 

[anthony215]

Also from WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) tonight is that the for the new GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise holder has been delayed til Jan/Feb2013.

Sorry, anthony215: I don't quite follow that? 

A post on WNXX  stating that the contract was supposed to be signed in July with the design freeze on IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) in December 2012.
 
Another post stating that the holder of the GW franchise was supposed to be annouced in Decmber 2012 but has been pushed back to Jan/Feb 2013 (Howver I thought the annoucement was always around March 2013 anyway?) with the  new operator taking over in July 2013 rather than April 2013 because of the easter blockade of Reading.

[Super Guard]

I thought the contract was extended slightly until the end of April 2013, because of the Easter blockade?

[anthony215]

I thought the contract was extended slightly until the end of April 2013, because of the Easter blockade?

That is what I had thought however it seems other people including some who are normaly correct have said it has been pushed back to July 2013 so i am trying to get a firm answer.

[The SprinterMeister]

I thought the contract was extended slightly until the end of April 2013, because of the Easter blockade?

That is what I had thought however it seems other people including some who are normaly correct have said it has been pushed back to July 2013 so i am trying to get a firm answer.

Date quoted for GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise implementation is now 21-07-2013. Design freeze for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) now quoted as being around December 2012. One would hope that they are going to get some kind of dimensionally correct 'Mock up' of the interior on display at some point before that for passengers and user groups to try for size and pass comment on. Remember folks that this is the future of long distance travel on the GW.

From the same normally very accurate source over at wnxxforum.com;

2.17 Negotiation and Award
Following bid evaluation and clarification, the Department reserves the right to negotiate
with one, some, or all Bidders.
Historically, even though the Department is likely to have decided after its evaluation and
clarification process that one or two bidders are in a leading position, no indication of this
is provided to bidders, nor any public announcement made until actual contract award and
signature.
On the GW competition, because of the interaction with IEP, the Department reserves the
right to indicate to a bidder(s) that its bid is not considered to be a leading bid and that it
need not engage with the IEP design process any further.
Because such a decision is almost certain to become known anyway, the Department may
well decide to make a short formal announcement in this respect. So doing will not in any
way prevent the Department from re-engaging with that Bidder should the Department
subsequently find it is unable to contract with the two (or more) bidders that were originally
considered to be lead bidders.

[anthony215]

I thought the contract was extended slightly until the end of April 2013, because of the Easter blockade?

That is what I had thought however it seems other people including some who are normaly correct have said it has been pushed back to July 2013 so i am trying to get a firm answer.

Date quoted for GW^» (Great Western - used as an abbreviation for the area / lines under the Great Western franchise, as opposed to FGW which includes "First", the company operating them too. For tickets - about) franchise implementation is now 21-07-2013. Design freeze for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) now quoted as being around December 2012. One would hope that they are going to get some kind of dimensionally correct 'Mock up' of the interior on display at some point before that for passengers and user groups to try for size and pass comment on. Remember folks that this is the future of long distance travel on the GW.

From the same normally very accurate source over at wnxxforum.com;

2.17 Negotiation and Award
Following bid evaluation and clarification, the Department reserves the right to negotiate
with one, some, or all Bidders.
Historically, even though the Department is likely to have decided after its evaluation and
clarification process that one or two bidders are in a leading position, no indication of this
is provided to bidders, nor any public announcement made until actual contract award and
signature.
On the GW competition, because of the interaction with IEP, the Department reserves the
right to indicate to a bidder(s) that its bid is not considered to be a leading bid and that it
need not engage with the IEP design process any further.
Because such a decision is almost certain to become known anyway, the Department may
well decide to make a short formal announcement in this respect. So doing will not in any
way prevent the Department from re-engaging with that Bidder should the Department
subsequently find it is unable to contract with the two (or more) bidders that were originally
considered to be lead bidders.

I very much look forward to seing the mock up hitachi come up with if they do decide to build one.

[The SprinterMeister]

I very much look forward to seing the mock up hitachi come up with if they do decide to build one.

I suspect you have more chance of knitting fog. DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) appear to be presenting IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s as a fait accompli, with that in mind I very much doubt the end users of the rail service, the passengers will get any input into the interior layout etc.

Just think Voyager with a higher floor, a longer whippier wobbly body and an even larger gin palace engine under the coach. You won't be far out...
 

[Timmer]

Just think Voyager with a higher floor, a longer whippier wobbly body and an even larger gin palace engine under the coach. You won't be far out...
 

I'm just enjoying traveling on 125s whilst we still have them. As pointed out by Roger Ford on Twitter earlier, 40 years ago this month the first prototype HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) rolled out and it's still going strong. On the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) their failure rate is lower than the class 91s that replaced most of them back in the early 90s. Says it all really.

[broadgage]

I very much look forward to seing the mock up hitachi come up with if they do decide to build one.

I suspect you have more chance of knitting fog. DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) appear to be presenting IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s as a fait accompli, with that in mind I very much doubt the end users of the rail service, the passengers will get any input into the interior layout etc.

Just think Voyager with a higher floor, a longer whippier wobbly body and an even larger gin palace engine under the coach. You won't be far out...
 

And the seats just slightly closer together, and slightly fewer tables, and no catering, except perhaps a trolley on selected services.

[JayMac]

I'm just imagining the posts that would have been made on this (and other) forums if the internet was around in the early to mid 70's (yes TJ, I know about ARPANET before you pipe up  )

There would have been posts decrying the introduction of these new fangled HSDTs^▸ (Original name for High Speed Train) on the 'Western' and rose tinted descriptions of how great the then current rolling stock and locomotives were. Heck, I'd've probably joined in by saying I was sad to see the Diesel Hydraulics going off to the knackers yard.

Embrace the future I say. Look forward to the new. I am. 

That's said, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) isn't Voyager MK2!

Ancient Chinese curse it says "May you live in interesting times." 

[TonyK]

I thought the contract was extended slightly until the end of April 2013, because of the Easter blockade?

Amazing how Easter can catch so many people by surprise, despite 2,000 years' notice.

[broadgage]

I'm just imagining the posts that would have been made on this (and other) forums if the internet was around in the early to mid 70's (yes TJ, I know about ARPANET before you pipe up  )

There would have been posts decrying the introduction of these new fangled HSDTs^▸ (Original name for High Speed Train) on the 'Western' and rose tinted descriptions of how great the then current rolling stock and locomotives were. Heck, I'd've probably joined in by saying I was sad to see the Diesel Hydraulics going off to the knackers yard.

Embrace the future I say. Look forward to the new. I am. 

That's said, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) isn't Voyager MK2!

Ancient Chinese curse it says "May you live in interesting times." 

I remember the old (pre HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units))) trains on the Western, and elswhere.
The old trains were normally longer, and had more legroom, more tables, more luggage space, and opening windows.
The HSTs were a backward step in regard to train length and seat spacing, but some considered this a worthwhile trade off in view of the substantialy reduced journy times. The introduction of A/C was a decided advantage in hot weather.

The fact that HSTs are now widely regarded as among the best trains on the network, shows just how far standards and expectations have fallen.

A year or two ago , a locomotive hauled train of (I think MK2 coaches) ran regularly from Taunton
Many passengers believed that this was "all first class" or looked in vain for steerage. Being presumably used to modern DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), they could not believe that the large and well spaced seats, every seat at a table, could be steerage class !
No doubt they enjoy the modern DMUs now used in that service.

[IndustryInsider]

Two nods to modern rolling stock design:

1)  The 180s.  I'd forgotten just how much leg room you get in standard class.  For my money the right combination of tables and airline seats for a long distance train and all seats having a good view out of the window.  Though in many ways a lovely carriage, Mk2^▸ (Mark 2 coach)'s with nothing but table seats were not so good when you wanted to have a little privacy and not play footsy with the person opposite.  Oh, and I hate fixed armrests!

2)  Class 172s.  I took a trip on one of the new Class 172s of London Midland a couple of months back.  Excellent leg room and 2+2 seating on what is a brand new suburban train, though train lengths have had to be extended and on some trains could do with being extended more (but not operationally possible due to platform lengths at present).  There are now complaints from commuters that there aren't enough seats in the peak hours - despite there being more carriages on many services.  Proves that sometimes you just can't win!

[The SprinterMeister]

Embrace the future I say. Look forward to the new. I am. 

That's said, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) isn't Voyager MK2!

Ancient Chinese curse it says "May you live in interesting times." 

Your going to be bitterly dissapointed then.

Anyone who thinks a new underfloor engined Intercity style cart is going to be an improvement on HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) wants their bumps felt. Its all about bums on seats and I doubt DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are that concerned about the comfort of those bums that are seated.