Intercity Express Programme (IEP) - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

The proposed IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) timetables show the Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - London Paddington via Bristol Parkway services as running non stop between Bristol Parkway and London Paddington doing the journey between Parkway and Paddington in 1 hour 10 minutes.

On further note, Roger Ford in his latest edition of informed sources stated that Siemens have come up with a 115mph express version of the class 380 desiro which they state can easily fit between the IEP high speed services on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line).

You can read more with Modern Railways is in the shops on friday.

I wonder if such units would be good for the semi-fast Oxford - London services with their doors helping with large passenger numbers along with the London - Bedwyn/Westbury service which would be good for glastonbury etc if the wires get beyond Bedwyn to Taunton & Plymouth.

Although the class 380's wont win awards for good looks I admit although they are not as bad in my opinion as the refurbished/rebuilt class 458/5's

[paul7575]

Stuart Baker was or maybe still is a top DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) civil servant.  It's widely believed he is the person most responsible for the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) project...

Paul

[DidcotPunter]

Stuart Baker (ex?) Network Rail gave a talk in Oxford last Monday.

He was very clear that the extra two IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) via BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) were only stopping at those two stations. Whether that included Reading wasn't checked though....but def no DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) or SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) stops.

I'd have been interested to hear that talk. Assuming it's the same Stuart Baker (S.K. Baker author of Rail Atlas of Britain), he is (was?) a Divisonal Manager at the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and was one of the main protagonists behind the IEP programme, particularly the decision to develop the IEP Bi-Mode version in preference to other options, such as loco-haulage away from the wires.  According to other well-informed sources such as Modern Railways, a rather controversial figure.

It will be interesting to see what the post-electrification timetable finally looks like. Four train per hour to Bristol TM^‡(resolve) is good if traffic grows but I think the proposed two "flyers" per hour non-stop from Bristol Parkway to Paddington will be carting around an awful lot of fresh air off-peak.  I suppose that it helps justify the 5-car Bi-Modes though  

I'd hope that they speed up the S Wales services - there's far less justification for all of these at Swindon and half of them at Didcot. I thought that the proposed timetable had the hourly Swansea-Padd service running fast from Newport to Reading - like I remember it did in 1967  

[paul7575]

I suppose the main purpose of the non-stop Bristol service is to remove all those passengers from other less tempting alternatives, such as the other Bristol trains that do stop at Reading etc, and go via Bath.  That then leaves more room on the latter trains for Reading and Bath etc passengers?

There may be method in their madness...

Paul

[DidcotPunter]

I suppose the main purpose of the non-stop Bristol service is to remove all those passengers from other less tempting alternatives, such as the other Bristol trains that do stop at Reading etc, and go via Bath.  That then leaves more room on the latter trains for Reading and Bath etc passengers?

There may be method in their madness...

Paul

Yes, I'd understand that for one train per hour. But two sounds like overkill - especially given the limited number of paths between Paddington and Didcot/Swindon. One hopes that patronage will grow as a result of the "sparks effect" to justify the non-stop trains.

[anthony215]

I think we will see the sparks effect pretty well on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) the  Swansea - London services are likely to do pretty well although the eractic pattern of trains will annoy some people.

I think some capacity issue's on the GWML will be reduced with the new layout at Reading although I wll like to see the looks of passengers as two trains per hour pass through not stopping. There will also be less freight going to didcot with one of the power stations being closed.

I do also hope they 4 track the route between Didcot & Swindn/Wotton Bassett as that should also help things.

Still I dont think the GWML is at the same level of capacity as the west coast mainline yet (Although I think like many others on this forum this will change in the future especially with more freight traffic from Southampton for example and there is talk of expanding the port at Milford Haven)

I can  imagine Bristol TM^‡(resolve) being extremely packed during the peaks especially with commuters who have chosen to live in Bristol and surrounding area's and commute in  to London. Of course that would also help fuel demand for improved local services.


I do hope that Swindon will see more services perhaps some running limited stop to Padding calling only @ Reading with a journey time end to end of 50 minutes

[John R]

There will also be less freight going to didcot with one of the power stations being closed.

I do also hope they 4 track the route between Didcot & Swindn/Wotton Bassett as that should also help things.

I can  imagine Bristol TM^‡(resolve) being extremely packed during the peaks especially with commuters who have chosen to live in Bristol and surrounding area's and commute in  to London. Of course that would also help fuel demand for improved local services.

The "less freight to Didcot" is probably one of the reasons why four tracking Swindon to Didcot is not in CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) plans - so no chance of it before 2020.

There are lots of commuters travelling east from Bristol, but I'd suggest that the bulk of the traffic is heading to the intermediate stations, e.g. Bath and Swindon. Probably more to London from Parkway currently as the journey time is rather more attractive than Temple Meads. Though taking the London commuters and ad hoc business traffic off the stopping services will release a lot of space for the existing services.

 What we also have to remember is a year or two after IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), Crossrail will dramatically reduce journey times from Paddington to the City, West End and Canary Wharf. I suspect the combination of these two will mean a big uptick in traffic over the next few years as people realise the commuting opportunities it offers (albeit at a price).

Finally I notice elsewhere that Siemens are reported to be offering a 115mph version of its Cl 380 emu. If this were chosen for the Great Western, with such a small speed differential there would also be an option to run these out as far as Swindon to hoover up commuter traffic from Swindon and Didcot and keep the IEP's relatively clear of middle distance commuting. Maybe a long shot.

[ellendune]

Finally I notice elsewhere that Siemens are reported to be offering a 115mph version of its Cl 380 emu. If this were chosen for the Great Western, with such a small speed differential there would also be an option to run these out as far as Swindon to hoover up commuter traffic from Swindon and Didcot and keep the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s relatively clear of middle distance commuting. Maybe a long shot.

It is easy to forget that commuting is not only towards London.  The further west you go the more westward commuters there are.  So yes you could run Swindon to London trains, but that would not help the people who commute from Swindon to Bristol.

It would just be a repeat of what happened when they closed all the local stations west of Didcot and axed all the local trains. That is why inter city trains stop at Didcot, Swindon and Chippenham - because there are no other trains to provide the service! They thought we only needed an infrequent service so it would be fine.

[anthony215]

Certainly a 115mph desiro would be good to run a Bristol - Oxford service which could also serve a new station at Wantage Road and Royal Wotton Bassett and reversing at Didcot allowing some of the Bristol - London services to avoid stopping at Didcot and save a good few minutes

[ChrisB]

Thanks to those who cleared up my mistake on Stuart Baker's employer! Yes, that's the man.

Been quite unwell until recently, but now out & about doing talks, particularly to this organisation (you don't need to be a member). Stuart spoke at three different meetings last week.
http://www.rcts.org.uk/

[didcotdean]

As I mentioned above there have been official suggestions of an hourly fast Didcot-Reading-London shuttle service, with some extended to Swindon, to enable elimination of one stop  at those stations on longer distance trains. What would be less satisfactory for some in Didcot would be total elimination of all stops on the South Wales services.

[Rhydgaled]

As I mentioned above there have been official suggestions of an hourly fast Didcot-Reading-London shuttle service, with some extended to Swindon, to enable elimination of one stop  at those stations on longer distance trains. What would be less satisfactory for some in Didcot would be total elimination of all stops on the South Wales services.

Personally, I think the south Wales INTERCITY services should be one fast and one semi-fast east of Cardiff. So, the Swansea services would call at Neath, Port Talbot Parkway, Bridgend, Cardiff, Newport, Bristol Parkway and Reading while the Paddington - Cardiff services would continue to stop at Didcot and Swindon as well. If you can fill a train with south Wales passengers in the peaks though, a Paddington, Newport, Cardiff and Swansea express could be interesting to see, though I doubt you could have a special path for it west of Cardiff so it wouldn't actually be able to miss out Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway and Neath.

[ChrisB]

There is quite a demand for services from Didcot/Swansea through to Wales. As long as there are GOOD connections at BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains), then fine, otherwise I don't agree with you.

[grahame]

How much of the South Wales demand is really to Didcot - and how much simply uses Didcot as the interchange for ongoing journeys to Culham, Oxford and Banbury?  I'm always part of a flow from the 125 onto the Oxford train at Didcot and haven't noticed how many people leave the station.

[ChrisB]

Makes no difference really, it's still demand at Didcot....also from stations twixt Reading & there too. A major interchange.