Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 20:35 09 Jan 2025
 
- Fresh weather warnings for ice across UK
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 today - Bath Railway Society
24/01/25 - Westbury Station reopens
24/01/25 - LTP4 Wilts / Consultation end
24/01/25 - Bristol Rail Campaign AGM 2025

On this day
9th Jan (2004)
Incorporation of Railway Development Society Ltd (now Railfuture) (link)

Train RunningShort Run
18:56 Exmouth to Paignton
19:15 Paignton to Exmouth
19:17 Exeter Central to Barnstaple
19:25 Exmouth to Paignton
20:19 Exeter Central to Barnstaple
Delayed
17:52 Trowbridge to Great Malvern
18:18 London Paddington to Swansea
18:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
18:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
January 09, 2025, 20:37:44 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[149] Railcard Prices going up
[126] 'Railway 200' events and commemorations 2025
[97] Thumpers for Dummies
[53] Ryanair sues 'unruly' passenger over flight diversion
[36] Thames Valley infrastructure problems causing disruption elsew...
[34] Mick Lynch announces retirement as head of RMT
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Rail overcrowding 'worsening' in London (BBC News 11/08/2011)  (Read 5214 times)
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 19245



View Profile
« on: August 12, 2011, 09:07:20 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Rail overcrowding 'worsening' in London and South East

Rush-hour overcrowding on London and south-east England rail routes is getting worse, figures have shown.

Morning rush-hour overcrowding is at its worst on services into London Paddington station, the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)) statistics said.

Services into Paddington in the morning peak had an average of 18.5% of passengers standing.

Outside London, Leeds has the highest number of standard-class passengers forced to stand.

First Great Western (FGW (First Great Western)) was the train company with the highest levels of overcrowding with 16.6% of people on average standing across the morning and evening peak.

Outside London, Birmingham had the highest passenger demand in the UK (United Kingdom), with 36,100 passengers departing from the city during the afternoon peak on a typical weekday in autumn 2010.

This was followed by Manchester with 29,400 departures and Leeds with 23,800.

'Difficult to keep up'

Separate Department for Transport (DfT» (Department for Transport - about)) figures showed the 10 most overcrowded trains arriving in or departing from London during commuting peak times were all operated by First Great Western (FGW).

The most crowded was the 06:37 BST service from Reading to Paddington, which had a standard-class capacity of 304, but carried up to 610 standard-class passengers.

A FGW spokesman said: "With more and more customers choosing to use our trains into and out of London Paddington it is difficult for us to keep up with demand. We are continuing our discussions with the DfT about the clear need for strengthened services into and out of London Paddington."

David Sidebottom, director of rail customer watchdog Passenger Focus, said: "The industry needs to address this through increasing capacity by more trains and carriages, upgrading railway infrastructure such as new signal technology, track work, longer station platforms and new lines."

Rail minister Theresa Villiers said: "We are now embarked on one of the biggest programmes of rail capacity improvement for a hundred years, including more than 2,700 new rail carriages."

A spokesman for the Association of Train Operating Companies said (Atoc) said: "It's good news that the coalition government is investing in over 2,500 new carriages and has pledged to introduce more flexible franchises that will allow operators to respond better to overcrowding."

The latest report on overcrowding, from the Office of Rail Regulation, can be found here. A word of warning though. The report .pdf is rather large. The overcrowding statistics are buried in the overall 'National Rail Trends' report. If you like facts and figures, graphs, tables and statistical analysis then you'll be delighted by this 220 page report!  Roll Eyes

(Page 58 of the .pdf for the facts and figures on overcrowding)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 09:42:07 by bignosemac » Logged

"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
Andrew1939 from West Oxon
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 535


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 12:01:54 »

. . . . and in the mean time those Adelantes lay unused whilst Theresa Villiers and her DfT» (Department for Transport - about) colleagues twiddle their thumbs and do not give FGW (First Great Western) consent to use them and help relieve this problem.
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5335


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 16:37:38 »

. . . . and in the mean time those Adelantes lay unused whilst Theresa Villiers and her DfT» (Department for Transport - about) colleagues twiddle their thumbs and do not give FGW (First Great Western) consent to use them and help relieve this problem.

Only two of them are unused, three are in use with Northern and therefore unavailable until the 172 cascade happens.  I expect FGW's reasoning would be that it has to be all five or none at all, because having only two units wouldn't justify the crew retraining.

Paul
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5335


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 16:58:16 »

There's also the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)'s 'top ten' lists for spring and autumn 2010, and in the second table (page 5 of the 8 page pdf) all ten services are FGW (First Great Western) - which is a bit of a first - there's nearly always been a couple of other TOCs (Train Operating Company) involved previously...

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/london-south-east-overcrowded-train-services/overcrowded-trains-south-east.pdf

Paul
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10363


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 21:52:05 »

which is a bit of a first

It's rather a lot of a 'First'  Wink

Get the five 180's back, put the Turbos back on suburban duties and get those extra MKIII trailers converted to extend most of the 2+7's, and you might, just might, have enough to survive until the cascases and new builds from electrification and Crossrail arrive.  I think the resident 180's at Old Oak Common have been moved around a little over the last week or so.  Could indicate something happening...
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4505


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 21:55:28 »

The final London and South East RUS (Route Utilisation Strategy) has quite a bit to say about solutions to this. http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?dir=\RUS%20Documents\Route%20Utilisation%20Strategies\RUS%20Generation%202\London%20and%20South%20East
Logged
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 19094


Justice for Cerys Piper and Theo Griffiths please!


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 21:59:39 »

From the Oxford Mail:

Quote
Train overcrowding is getting worse

Overcrowding on rush-hour trains between Oxfordshire and London Paddington is getting worse.

All 10 of the most overcrowded peak trains in and out of London^s major stations last autumn were First Great Western (FGW (First Great Western)) services at Paddington, according to new figures issued yesterday by the Department for Transport (DfT» (Department for Transport - about)).

FGW admitted last night it was ^difficult to keep up with demand^ on its routes.

In a separate report, the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)) said FGW had by far the highest levels of overcrowding in the South East.

Rail Minister Theresa Villiers told the Oxford Mail last night that a decision was expected soon about extra capacity for FGW services in the Thames Valley.

Four of the 10 trains in the DfT list began or ended their journeys at Oxford, where commuters pay ^4,104 a year for a season ticket.

The busiest of these was the 6.15pm from London, which serves Goring and Streatley, Cholsey, Didcot Parkway and Radley on its way to Oxford. The train has a capacity of 533 standard class passengers, but the snapshot survey found it was leaving Paddington with 944 on board, 77 per cent more than there was space for. A change in the type of train used from last December has provided another 45 seats.

It was only the third most overcrowded train recorded. Topping the list was the 6.37am from Reading, which arrived at Paddington with 610 people on a train with a capacity of 304.

Other services between Oxford and London in the list were the 6.09am and 7.09am from Oxford and the 5.18pm departure from London.

In January, the Oxford Mail reported on overcrowding figures for autumn 2009, which painted a similar picture. Seven of the 10 busiest trains were operated by FGW, with one starting its journey at Didcot and one at Oxford.

FGW managing director Mark Hopwood said in May he hoped to secure the return of five 280-seat Adelante trains, along with extra coaches to add more than 80 seats to many of the company^s High Speed Trains.

Mrs Villiers said: ^First Great Western is continuing talks with the department about providing additional capacity in the Thames Valley area and while the proposals are yet to be confirmed, a decision is expected soon.^

An FGW spokesman said: ^With more and more customers choosing to use our trains into and out of Paddington, it^s difficult for us to keep up with demand.

^Six out of the 10 train operators in London and the South East area have had injections of rolling stock recently, so it^s not surprising that they have seen improvements.

^Clearly these latest figures demonstrate that our customers travelling into and out of Paddington also need strengthened services. We are continuing our discussions with the DfT about the clear need for strengthened services for London Paddington.^
Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
onthecushions
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 977


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 22:07:27 »

Spending many hours on Reading's platform 5 in morning peaks, I've often imagined a rake (or two) of spare Mark 3a (hauled) standard opens, topped and tailed by class 67's, shuttling between Paddington and Reading.

The cramming East of Reading inconveniences everyone - no trolley service in first class again, apologies for crowding, etc.

The "added value" of extra FGW (First Great Western) capacity must be very great indeed considering the high earners it daily ships to and from the Capital.

OTC

Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10363


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 22:08:53 »

Yet again, no mention that the suburban services load even more heavily between Southall and Ealing Broadway than they do when they arrive/depart Paddington.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5335


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 22:30:46 »

Yet again, no mention that the suburban services load even more heavily between Southall and Ealing Broadway than they do when they arrive/depart Paddington.

Er, not quite.  If you read all of the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)'s paper...   Shocked

Quote
The passenger load figure is the count at the busiest point on the particular service. This can be an interchange point outside London on the route concerned (e.g. Stratford or Ealing Broadway) and does not always correspond to the terminal point.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 22:36:46 by paul7755 » Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10363


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2012, 11:14:58 »

Noted, Paul - but I only just spotted your post - thanks and good news.  Though I defy anybody to make an accurate count on some of those trains!

Also good news is that one of the trains to make that highly dubious Top 10 list, at number 2, the 18:45 stopper from Paddington to Reading, has now been strengthened from 3 to 5 carriages.  I saw it leave Paddington last night and there were only a handful of standees, though of course there would have been 100 or so others waiting to cram on board at Ealing Broadway!  At least it won't mean punters getting left behind any more, and perhaps the stop at West Drayton can now be reinstated so that the very poor 32 minute gap of departures from Paddington between 18:25 and 18:57 can now be plugged?

As a consequence the 17:42 Reading to Paddington is also now a 5-car set.  You wouldn't think that would be too busy in the contra-peak, but believe you me it was also full to the rafters with returning commuters as a 3-car service, though recently helped a little by the additional fast service from Slough to Paddington at 18:11.

In the morning there is also some relief now being provided, with the following trains strengthened over what was the case late last year:

06:36 Reading to Paddington (due 07:44): from 3 to 5-cars.  This train was also on the Top 10 list, at number 1 in fact!
07:57 Paddington to Oxford: from 3 to 5-cars.

* 05:43 Oxford to Paddington (due 06:54): from 4 to 5-cars.
* 07:12 Paddington to Reading: from 4 to 5-cars.

08:21 Oxford to Paddington (due 10:03): from 3 to 5-cars.
10:12 Paddington to Reading: from 3 to 5-cars.

* I'm not quite sure whether these were usually 5-cars but short-formed to 4-cars on the day I surveyed them.  Can anyone confirm?  Jo, it's the 06:31 fast from Maidenhead.

Anyway, good news now filtering through to passengers on the ground with the two alleged most overcrowded services now with two more carriages.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page