mk3s could be made accessible for operation beyond 2020

[whole diary]

[northwesterntrains]

http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/hsts-are-good-to-2035.html

[anthony215]

Good to see the MK3 stock get more life. 
Maybe if the great western was electrified to Swansea/Exeter etc, if there were spare DVT^‡(resolve)'s & class 90's available then you could convert some of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) mk3 stock to loco hualed and couple up a diesel locomotive to haul the trains were there are no wires

[Tim]

Good to see the MK3 stock get more life. 
Maybe if the great western was electrified to Swansea/Exeter etc, if there were spare DVT^‡(resolve)'s & class 90's available then you could convert some of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) mk3 stock to loco hualed and couple up a diesel locomotive to haul the trains were there are no wires

Strikes me as not the best use of money.  If we want to spend money to improve accessibilty (and we should)  surely station improvements will be better use of money as they will last beyond 2035?

[willc]

Am i the only person who finds the prospect of Mk3s running for more than 60 years since they first took to the tracks profoundly depressing?

[JayMac]

You're not alone willc. I predicted some time ago here on the forum, when the current economic problems began, that there was going to have to be a 'make do and mend' attitude for some rolling stock.

Mark 3s are damn good stock and BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) did an excellent job with their design and build, but to have them still in front line operation for another 25 years is, as you say, rather depressing.

Of course, there are those who go around wearing rose tinted spectacles who will no doubt be happy to see them soldier on.

Give me new and different any day. New stock may not be to everybody's tastes but we risk stagnation if we don't go with new thinking and designs. Look forward. We live in a very different world from that of the 1970s when the Mark 3s were introduced. The needs of the industry and the expectations of passengers are very different.

That said, cold hard economics will come into play. If it proves cheaper to life extend Mark 3s instead of ordering a new build then that's what'll happen.

As an aside, I'm a big fan of Class 47 locomotives, but I don't want to see them still hauling front line services. They're too damn old!

[broadgage]

In my experience most passengers neither know nor care how old the coaches are.
Those who do know or care, generally prefer the older ones due to the more generous leg room, the provision of tables, luggage space and reliable toilets.

When FGW^▸ (First Great Western) recently "improved" HST^▸ (High Speed Train) coaches by removing the tables and cramming in more seats, many customers believed these to be new coaches. "if it has high density bus seats, then it must be new !"

[JayMac]

How many 'high density bus seats' do you know with moveable armrests, access to power sockets and a seat back table?

Legroom is not an issue in the airline seats, the seat design ensured that legroom was no worse than with the original BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) airline seats.

The refurb had to be done. The huge growth in passengers numbers needed to be addressed with the existing rolling stock. More seating was needed. Would you rather sit or stand?

Don't get me me wrong, I did like the original MK3s despite the uncomfortable, far too soft seating and fixed arm rests, but they were no longer fit for purpose on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and capacity needed to be addressed.

Still, if you want that nostalgic, rose-tinted experience of an unimproved MK3 get yourself to Euston for the FO 1843 Euston to Crewe via Birmingham New St. You'll also find it running at the weekends to cover for maintenance of the Virgin fleet although the weekend diagrams are not fixed.

[devon_metro]

I had a very pleasant journey on a refurb HST^▸ (High Speed Train) yesterday, my only complaint would be the lack of luggage provision.

[Mookiemoo]

The refurb added what?  three rows of seats per carriage?

And the end result was basically to make SC travel completely incompatible with getting stuff done with the high seat backs and poxy trays.

[northwesterntrains]

How many 'high density bus seats' do you know with moveable armrests, access to power sockets and a seat back table?

I agree.  The only trains with high density bus seats are the Northern and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 142s.

EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) used exactly the same type of seating when refurbishing their 158s and some people complain but they certainly aren't anywhere near the worse seating on long distance trains today.  Try doing 2-3 hours on a 350 with 3+2 seating, for instance.

[Tim]

What can a refurbished new coach provide that an old one cannot? 

I find the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) refurb encouraging.   A huge new desiel fleet would have reduced the chances of electrification continuing after the current schemes are completed.