Who should be given most consideration in a refit - commuter or leisure traffic?

[whole diary]

[vacman]

Refurbed HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units))'s are much better than previous! you get a nice bit of privacy in the airline seats, charger sockets, the problem with the english is we don't like change! everyone hated HST's when they were new, everyone hated 47's when they were tena penny then when they were on the way out everyone started loving them!!!! and the main thing is there's more seats in the refurbed HST's, admittedly theres less tables BUT to have more commuters (the people who travel every day and make up around 90% of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s customers) seated rather than standing at peak times when they pay hundreds of pounds for season tickets must take priority over families who travel twice a year on cheapo tickets who want the whole carriage and every table to themselves!

This topic has been split out from "142's Devon Bound" - Graham

[Trowres]

   admittedly theres less tables BUT to have more commuters (the people who travel every day and make up around 90% of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s customers) seated rather than standing at peak times when they pay hundreds of pounds for season tickets must take priority over families who travel twice a year on cheapo tickets who want the whole carriage and every table to themselves!

But commuters are travelling at very cheap rates (pence per mile) and incur a great deal of expense in capacity only used at peak times. Every extra family off-peak means extra cash to the ToC for a miniscule increase in train operating costs.

Yes, I have a family, and now have very little desire to use FGW towards Paddington.

[vacman]

   admittedly theres less tables BUT to have more commuters (the people who travel every day and make up around 90% of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s customers) seated rather than standing at peak times when they pay hundreds of pounds for season tickets must take priority over families who travel twice a year on cheapo tickets who want the whole carriage and every table to themselves!

But commuters are travelling at very cheap rates (pence per mile) and incur a great deal of expense in capacity only used at peak times. Every extra family off-peak means extra cash to the ToC for a miniscule increase in train operating costs.

Yes, I have a family, and now have very little desire to use FGW towards Paddington.

Maybe they are travelling at a cheaper "pence per mile" but they travel thousands of miles every year and to be honest they probably pay more than most families who travel on leisure advance tickets which are rediculously cheap, children under 5 who travel for free and occupy seats whilst commuters stand is not right!

[Trowres]

Maybe they are travelling at a cheaper "pence per mile" but they travel thousands of miles every year and to be honest they probably pay more than most families who travel on leisure advance tickets which are rediculously cheap, children under 5 who travel for free and occupy seats whilst commuters stand is not right!

Hi Vacman...Perhaps Graham had better move the pair of us off the "142" thread, although I don't really want to prolong this debate. The point I am trying to make is that accommodating the commuter has now reached such measures of desperation that it adversely affects the "product" as seen by other categories of traveller (i.e. those you need to attract to off-peak trains to get the "bottom line" right.).

[grahame]

Hi Vacman...Perhaps Graham had better move the pair of us off the "142" thread, although I don't really want to prolong this debate. The point I am trying to make is that accommodating the commuter has now reached such measures of desperation that it adversely affects the "product" as seen by other categories of traveller (i.e. those you need to attract to off-peak trains to get the "bottom line" right.).

Topic split as suggested (wow - that was an interesting excersize - I've not had to do a selective posts one like that before!) and I'm moving it up to "Fare's Fairt" too as it's not just a Devonian topic.

[grahame]

I do hear you, Trowres, concerning an ongoing conversation.   But then I have been resisting the temptation to put in my own, selfish, extra thoughts on this thread - so I'll do so now and perhaps vere the topic in a new direction.

I travel quite often by train.   I don't have a regular journey - today it will be Taunton, on Monday I'm off to London, and so on. Usually on my own. And it's quite rarely that I can predict my timing.  Furthermore my journey tends to start/end at Melksham where there are no off peak services, and are often long distance.

So it's very rare that I can take advantage of:

Book ahead / fixed train fares.
Off peak fares.
A "bulk buy" deal on a specific route (season ticket).
Local area rover type tickets.

Neither do I fall into a favoured category - I can't use:

Family Railcard (have one, but they make their own way these days)
Student ticket (though I'm always learning)
Senior Citizens special (but only a few years to go!)
Rail worker's discount (though I think I'm doing something for the railway here!)
Disabled Rail card (I'm fortunate in this area)
BritRail pass (I'm a UK^▸ (United Kingdom) resident and not a favoured overseas visitor)
Groupsave (but there's a huge temptation to stand with a billboard and form a group!)
 
Shouldn't the major consideration in a refit being those people who are paying the highest fares ... or  are there so few of us that we can be disregarded as an insignificant minority?

What would I like to see?

* Comfortable ride, comformable seat, comfortable temperature
* Seating for all, including [I'm not one] the more generously built members of the population.
* Space to read / use a reasonable size laptop / do paperwork
* On a journey of over 30 minutes, the ability to use the loo
* On a journey of 60 minutes, somewhere I can get a coffee and snack at any time, knowing where that refreshment facility is in the train and that I'll be able to return to my seat afterwards.
* I put my safety high up the list too.
* Speed not critical - I am quote happy with 5 minutes longer on 2 hours if there's a buffet car

I'm consciously NOT asking for luxury items such as service at seat, WiFi, recliners, etc; those can indeed be reserved for a higher price premium service

[Shazz]

out of interest i thought the new hst's were all getting wireless?

[Jim]

out of interest i thought the new hst's were all getting wireless?

Think that is happening at a later date

[12hoursunday]

out of interest i thought the new hst's were all getting wireless?

Wireless? We've got 32 of the buggers running from one end of the train to the other!

[Shazz]

I'm still yet to pickup wireless signal on any of the refurbs, you sure?

[devon_metro]

None of them have any. Its being installed once the whole fleet has got its shiny new ironing board seats