New carriages. What do they mean / how many are there now?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

I get confused when someone says "30 new carriages" ... do they mean there will be 30 more running on the tracks once they're delivered, or are 30 others going to be scrapped?    Or does 30 new carriages mean "20 brand new carriages will be introduced in the London area, from where 10 will be transferred elsewhere - giving 5 new carriages around Bristol (in that they're new to Bristol) and similarly 5 new carriages to Derby based services".

And which of the announcements relate to fresh news, and which replace other news - is "1650 carriages" in addition to "900 carriages" elsewhere, or is in 'just' an increase of 750?

How many carriages are there on the network anyway?

I've had a brief look around for answers, and not come up with anything that's a "sure link".   Does anyone know of a web site that nicely lists each type of train (and / or TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)) and then perhaps splits them slightly further?   Widipedia is a starting point .. but I don't think it's the best approach as it would require me to go through each class and there are some I don't know about.  But it does tell me:

153 - 70 units - 70 carriages
150 - 137 units - 2 or 3 cars; not sure how many of each so can't work out vehicles
158 - 182 built but only 170 "in service" (does that mean 12 out of use?); not sure 2 v 3, so not sure of vehicle count

Is it just me, or would some nice tables be really helpful?

[paul7575]

I've been following this for the last couple of years and have come to the conclusion that there are no current plans to scrap any EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)/DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) at all, even 'Pacers', so the question is basically 'are a particular TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s new units additions or replacements, or a bit of both'?

So in the case of Thameslink, we expect their current trains, the 319s, to all go elsewhere - so in rough figures it looks like about 400 vehicles are replacements, and then 800 are extras.  That's the one cascade everyone seems familiar with.  But Thameslink also eventualy subsumes existing routes from Southern, Southeastern, and the FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect) routes into Kings Cross. So in all those areas, there will be older EMUs available, perhaps for strengthening existing services of those TOCs.

Crossrail is the same, the 600 new vehicles are mostly providing new services, but a fair proportion of NXEA^▸ (National Express East Anglia)'s services into Liverpool St get taken over, so there's another possible load of spare EMUs - but in this case the existing fleet is quite old, so may indeed get scrapped.

You are obviously familiar with how new units for LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) produces replacements for FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s ramshackle collection, which in turn allows eg ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former Train Operating Company)) to get back up to full strength...

Getting back to your question about what's what on the rolling stock front, I find this guy's website about as useful as any, his fleet lists seem to be kept reasonably accurate.

http://www.thejunction.org.uk/

Paul

[Brucey]

With regards to the 158s, I believe some were converted to 159s around 2006.

[paul7575]

That's right, SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s 8 units numbered in the 159/1 series were previously 158s, but the vehicle numbers should allow their previous incarnations as 158s to be worked out.

Paul

[grahame]

Thanks, Paul ... a quick look tells me ...

Diesel and Diesel Electic Units
No of sets: 1163
No of carriages: 2914

Loco hauled stock - Mark 2 and 3
No of carriages: 678

HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) passenger vehicles (trailers)
No of carriages: 730

and that's including vehicles available but stored at places like Fenny Compton

Electric slightly more complex to work out - I notice vehicles that are not yet in service in the lists, together with the old Lymington Line units.

[grahame]

"Bull at a gate" gives me ...

Electric Units
No of sets: 2012
No of carriages: 7868

But that includes old Lymington units, power cars on Eurostar (which - correct me if I'm wrong - don't have any seats so should not be considered as passenger carriages) and units that are pre-introduction.