Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 21:55 09 Jan 2025
 
* Fresh weather warnings for ice across UK
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 today - Bath Railway Society
24/01/25 - Westbury Station reopens
24/01/25 - LTP4 Wilts / Consultation end
24/01/25 - Bristol Rail Campaign AGM 2025

On this day
9th Jan (2004)
Incorporation of Railway Development Society Ltd (now Railfuture) (link)

Train RunningNo cancellations or delays
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
January 09, 2025, 22:02:26 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[149] Railcard Prices going up
[126] 'Railway 200' events and commemorations 2025
[97] Thumpers for Dummies
[53] Ryanair sues 'unruly' passenger over flight diversion
[36] Thames Valley infrastructure problems causing disruption elsew...
[34] Mick Lynch announces retirement as head of RMT
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Fuel consumption and the increasingly green railway  (Read 2265 times)
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10363


View Profile
« on: June 15, 2010, 16:00:52 »

Various notices have gone out over the last couple of years to encourage drivers to save fuel (and therefore money) and reduce pollution (both noise and actual).  This is manifesting itself primarily on FGW (First Great Western) by drivers shutting down engines of units which are going to stable or layover for more than a short while.  Other TOC (Train Operating Company)'s are trying to go even further, for example, First TransPennine's fleet of 185's are fitted with a fuel monitoring system that will cause engine(s) to idle when not required and I believe that management have been trying to get a system in place where drivers would be rewarded if they save a certain amount of fuel.

I'm all for it, as I found it particularly wasteful when a train just sat idling, in some cases for hours on end, with no sign of it moving.  There are issues to overcome, for example air conditioning, heating and lighting usually don't work when engines are switched off which might be a problem in the depths of winter or heights of summer.  Also, some types of traction are not as suitable to be switched off as others - for example, HST (High Speed Train)'s take a long time to mobilise if both engines are switched off and if you only switch one off it really needs to be the one that's not supplying the trains electrical systems.  However, there's a lot we can still do to reduce the wastage of fuel.

I recently took the opportunity to look at a few 'black box' downloads at random to see what kind of driving potential FGW's men and women could achieve.  The standout of the ones I looked at was the 05:02 Worcester to Paddington service from a few weeks ago which maintained an on time arrival at all stations (except Oxford where it looks as if it was checked down to a red signal outside the station).  Of a route mileage of 57 miles the train (a HST) was either coasting or braking (i.e. not taking power) for a total of 28 miles - at almost 50% of the route miles.

It should be said that the schedule for this (and other) Cotswold Line services are fairly slack and the maximum line speed is 100mph.  Also the route is fairly undulating which lends itself well to prolonged coasting without the speed dipping too far, however I still found that impressive enough to post on here, and give further credence to the railway's green image.

Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 16:13:10 »

But it's fuel efficiency would have even better had been an electric with regen brakes.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10363


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 17:52:10 »

Well, I can't argue with that.  Though FGW (First Great Western) doesn't exactly run many electrified services, save for their share of the Heathrow Connect services.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
qwerty
Full Member
***
Posts: 74


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 19:51:09 »

Well, I can't argue with that.  Though FGW (First Great Western) doesn't exactly run many electrified services, save for their share of the Heathrow Connect services.

A big start could be made by improving how airtight the air systems are. I might shut the engine down if I didn't think all the air would be gone in 10 minutes.
Logged
The SprinterMeister
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 665


Trundling round the SW

Chris64ex4@hotmail.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 23:20:22 »

Well, I can't argue with that.  Though FGW (First Great Western) doesn't exactly run many electrified services, save for their share of the Heathrow Connect services.

A big start could be made by improving how airtight the air systems are. I might shut the engine down if I didn't think all the air would be gone in 10 minutes.

The 15x used to keep their air up for literally days when they were new. All those long lengths of knackered Neophrene pipe inside the bodies for the door air and things like Horns and wipers may have a lot to do with it.

And if your stabling units in platforms a lot of the time the engine needs to be left running simply to keep the tail lights lit, although this is less of a problem with the new LED head / tail light clusters.
Logged

Trundling gently round the SW
The SprinterMeister
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 665


Trundling round the SW

Chris64ex4@hotmail.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2010, 23:26:55 »

Other TOC (Train Operating Company)'s are trying to go even further, for example, First TransPennine's fleet of 185's are fitted with a fuel monitoring system that will cause engine(s) to idle when not required and I believe that management have been trying to get a system in place where drivers would be rewarded if they save a certain amount of fuel.
Haing been told by one of their drivers what the fuel consumption figures are for a class 185 I can well understand why FTPex are rather keen to do the Eco Mode modfication and encourage their drivers not to cane the things harder than is neccessary to keep to schedule timings.

The Eco Mode shuts the third engine down rather than letting it idle, the units are designed so that the electrics on the dead car will crossfeed from the other cars in the set. Two engines on full load is more fuel efficient than three engines on part load.
Logged

Trundling gently round the SW
caliwag
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 342


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 09:00:54 »

Drivers with a, now defunct, freight company were encouraged to coast where possible. On one, with an impatient following passenger train, was pulled up at the next signal..."what's wrong driver?"..."nowt mate, company policy to coast to save fuel!"
Logged
qwerty
Full Member
***
Posts: 74


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 13:34:41 »

"nowt mate, company policy to coast to save fuel!"

Nothingnew about coasting either. Loads of stations in the NSE (Network South East) area have coasting boards to indicate where TPTB (The Powers That Be) thought you could shut off and not loose time. *some* were in the right place.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page