Conditions of carriage, is it enforced?

[whole diary]

[Graz]

The problem with the current system is that you have different practices between staff and different policies between companies.  Why not just do what is done in most other countries and allow the sale of all tickets on the train but add a ^3 to ^5 "commission" to all on-train sales.  Make this consistant and nationwide.

The "commision" should be set a a level to discourage the opertunistic fare dodger but to be affordable to the genuine customer who can't buy a ticjet at the station because the queques are too long or because they are running late.  And don't call it a "penalty" because you make your genuine customers feel like criminals.

^ I think that's a great idea. I hate to feel like a criminal just for arriving at the station.

Also as I've said earlier, ticket offices on smaller stations (Keynsham, Oldfield Park, etc) should be open longer.

[vacman]

I'm not sure I agree with the last comments.

For example, on the morning services from Nailsea into Bristol (the High Speed services), the train managers almost always come down the train asking "Does anyone need to buy a ticket?" (And lots do of course, as the ticket buying facilities are totally inadequate, now the station is unstaffed.) Now this is on a service covered by penalty fares. So FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff are effectively accepting that it's OK to buy a ticket on the train. And if you don't you can always buy one at TM^‡(resolve), no questions asked.

So, what happens the first day FGW finally decide to impose the regime? In the words of the Kaiser Chiefs, I predict a riot.

I have said in this forum before that I don't agree with unstaffed stations being part of the penalty fares scheme, my last comments refer to staffed stations.

[vacman]

The reason Penalty fares were introduced (by BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))!!!) is for routes where stations are close together and thus on-train ticket checks are not possible, to allow people to purchase tickets on the train is asking for trouble as there is no incentive for people to pay for their journey and thus "try it on" and the railway looses money, fares go up even more and no money to invest!

Every penalty fare station has clear notices indicating what happens if you board without a ticket and if you choose to ignor them then there's only one person to blame if you get Penalty fared! It may seem harsh if people are running late etc but you can't have one rule for one and a different rule for another. Would you go into Tesco and run out with your shopping without paying for it because you didn't want to queue up because you were late??

Yes you can.

Someone who walks straight to th excess fare window and declares they came from a penalty station but had a reason for no ticket is NOT TRYING TO EVADE PAYING

Someone who tries getting through thr barrier first - IS

Someone who invents their embarkation at an unmanned station - IS

When I declared I got on at egham - there were 4 unmanned stations between there and putney I could have boarded at -  but I was honest - and penalised for it

I do take your point BUT the proffessional opportunist fare dodger would arrive at the station and if the barriers were open (which they quite often seem to be at Plymouth and Exeter!!) they would walk staright out of the station, if the barriers were in operation then they would walk staright up to the window and make out that they were late or their dog ate their ticket etc, etc...... I'm not saying that you are a fare dodger but rules are rules!

[Mookiemoo]

I guess I cant see, in the age of credit cards etc, what is wrong with buying a ticket on the train!

Most other countries allow it.

[vacman]

I explained why TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s don't allow tickets to be purchased on the train, do you expect a guard to go through and sell everyone a ticket on a packed commuter train? you would need about 20 guards on the train! I work on trains and if tickets were sold on trains then the railways would loose millions. I sense sour grapes because you got a PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)? could you imagine the underground without barriers? What your suggesting just isn't practical.

[Tim]

I wholeheartedly agree with Vacman's point about the rules needing to be enforced by everyone or it just undermines them.   Lax enforcement is also unfare on the passenger.  I would argue that it is unfair of a company to lull a passger into a false sense of security by allowing him to buy a tciket on the train and then throwingthe book at him the following week by enforcing therules properly. 

I don't object to barriered stations either but like so much else in this world it is not a question of what FGW^▸ (First Great Western) does but the way that it does it.

If you are going to have barriers, then have enough of them for everyone to get through quickly and keep them closed in the evening when the yobs come out to play ticketless travel increases and  the platform would be safer if it wasn't open.  If you are gong to crack-down on tickless travel then install more ticket machines and open more ticket windows.

And if you are going to enforce the Conditions of carriage on Passengers them someone should enforce them on FGW as well.  If I get a penalty for travelling without a ticket then FGW should be fined for every occasion that they have refused to sell me a combination of tickets (prefectly legal under the NCC) at Bath station.

We need an authority with the power to carry out spot checks on ticket sales to make sure FGW is abiding by the law and issue rules like "you may only install a barrier at station X if you have Y number of working ticket machines and at least Z ticket staff"  Passengers will only abide by the law if there is a penalty and someone like Vacman to enforce it.  FGW will only abide by teh law and its franchise conditions if there is a powerful authority to hand out stiff penalties when it fails.