More rolling stock

[whole diary]

[grahame]

I'm struggling to find a route into Waterloo that avoids Clapham Junction without using the LU Network, which I think would be frowned heavily upon

I think there is some capacity via Olympia (but how to get there avoiding Reading?) and via Brixton ... but Bicester and chord, or even Bicester and Aylesbury ... (Shameless self interest declaration ... I seem to spend a stupid amount of time travelling to Oxford, Bicester, Milton Keynes and Cambridge from Melksham)

[MarkRanger]

Thanks to everyone who has joined in this debate - I had also seen the Trout's post about Wrexham and Shropshire, which seemed to vindicate my thoughts on how to operate TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s with more than a passing thought to customers.

So, why are access charges much higher for loco hauled stock than DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s? Is it down to wear and tear?

Having been so involved in the Cambridgeshire guided bus debacle, I wondered about a Cambridge-Oxford service after our efforts to stop the council wasting ^100m of taxpayer's money came to nowt, but was told that there was no chance whatsoever of paths on the North London line....

But I bet there are ways of utilising some of the 'alternative' stopping points, instead of flocking into the main terminii. For example, how far into Paddington is the line 'full'? Might there be a station a few miles out that hooks up with TFL^▸ (Transport for London) in some way? Acton, Ealing come to mind? What happened with the old Eurostar depot (is it called North Pole?) Does that connect to Waterloo in some way? Or nearby???

There is a precedent here - it is called Ryanair, and they've done a half decent job of it  They started with manky old 737s and now have just about the newest fleet flying.

Apart from customer service though, which they excel at being absolute rubbish at.

[devon_metro]

I'm struggling to find a route into Waterloo that avoids Clapham Junction without using the LU Network, which I think would be frowned heavily upon

Acton Bridge > Willesden Jn Reverse > Mitre Bridge > Kensignton Olympia > Latchmere Jn > West London Jn > Waterloo

Avoids Clapham

[thetrout]

Thats one way of solving the problem, I like that route. The next problem (not meaning to sound critical or ungrateful) would be the bottleneck at reading...

Also if you were to reverse at Willesden Junction, would that not mean you would have to make the train call there? which in turn would affect LO services...?

Maybe we need to think of a new route...?

how about this one:

Swindon - Chippenham - Melksham - Trowbridge - Westbury - Warminster - Salisbury - Andover - Basingstoke - Woking - London Bridge (Avoiding Clapham Junction)

I will admit that I don't know the names of the junctions but the best route I found for the above from the South West Main Line was:

Haydons Road - Streatham - Peckham Rye - Queens Road Peckham - London Bridge

I Suppose the route doesn't have to run to London, Maybe run from Taunton or Exeter to Oxford and encourage passengers to use WSMR^▸ (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway) or Chiltern Services??

[John R]

So, why are access charges much higher for loco hauled stock than DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s? Is it down to wear and tear?

Indeed, it is due to the significantly higher track forces.

[Btline]

The thing is, you can cast any number of weird and wonderful routes through London, but journey times will be poor. Commuters won't be tempted if they have to get up in the early hours to arrive in London by 9 am!

And I think most routes into London are full (esp at peak times), and Southern/LO won't appreciate you eating into their few spare "recovery/reliability" paths, and taking up valuable platform space with your old and unreliable diesel rolling stock.

I don't want to be nasty about any suggestions, but I think that in this case, where there is no space, just provide a well timed connecting service (i.e. at Swindon for TransWilts; Taunton for Mindhead). No need for Open Access; I don't think this should be beyond any competent TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)...

[thetrout]

No you didn't sound nasty at all Btline. Infact you have made a rather sensible and valid point.

There should be a reasonable service for the TransWilts, Taunton - Minehead.

Also the reopening of the Radstock & Shepton Mallet Branches for mainline traffic. (But thats a different kettle of fish all together)

I think a service from say Minehead - Swindon via Frome & Melksham would do rather well.

I personally think that if the railways provided a service that the passengers actually want (TransWilts speaks to mind), there would be no need for open access operators. Look at what Wrexham & Shropshire and Grand Central have achieved in the past year. Passenger numbers have soared as a result of somebody taking a gamble and attempting to provide a service for passengers. Personally I think (despite their initial problems) they have done a b***dy good job

Yes your right about other operators frowning at the thought of somebody nicking their routes. But If a path and suitable route could be found. Then IMO^▸ (in my opinion) a Cross West Train service would do rather well.

[MarkRanger]

The thing is, you can cast any number of weird and wonderful routes through London, but journey times will be poor. Commuters won't be tempted if they have to get up in the early hours to arrive in London by 9 am!

I am not really thinking that a lot of business might be derived from this traffic, my own thoughts about this concept of another way of doing TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company), is perhaps looking at less time sensitive traffic - although equally, I do believe that if you get them the right service, then people may buy into a longer journey time. It's all about engaging your customer base, rather than seeing them almost as a necessary evil

And I think most routes into London are full (esp at peak times), and Southern/LO won't appreciate you eating into their few spare "recovery/reliability" paths, and taking up valuable platform space with your old and unreliable diesel rolling stock.

It may be old, but my point is that, if you operate units that have enough firepower - i.e. top and tail, then reliability is not an issue

I don't want to be nasty about any suggestions, but I think that in this case, where there is no space, just provide a well timed connecting service (i.e. at Swindon for TransWilts; Taunton for Mindhead). No need for Open Access; I don't think this should be beyond any competent TOC...

I think you are absolutely right here, but given the financial pressure on TOCs, are they mindful of thinking of more peripheral ways to enhance revenue? I read recently news of a report done by one of the heritage railways that showed the value of their business to the local economy and think this is one of the most powerful, but unused arguments for more rail travel. It is not just about A to B, but the much wider benefits it brings to businesses both in those two locations, but also en route.

And say a local/specialised TOC fed to the one of the 'main' TOC routes. Isn't that a win-win for all? Minehead is a good example, as is Swanage. Yet, it strikes me that the powers that be - Network Rail, really arent desperately interested in these kind of fringe benefits