Confirmation

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Am I correct that are very few resrtictions on Virgin Trains with Off Peak tickets bought with a Senior Railcar.

I want to travel Taplow Stoke on Trent next Wednesday. i 've just looked at the conditons page of the Senior Railcard and it says that there are only restrictions in the morning peak for journies wholley within the Ex NSE^▸ (Network South East) area (and afew others no specified says check at booking office) It doesn't say check with bignosemac.

Does that mean I can catch a before 09:21 train from Taplow.

Similarly I presumme there are no restrictons out of Paddington if I come home in the evening peak.

i've just realised i travelling during the Olympics but a 1:24 on a Pendo beats 2.32 on Vomiter to go via Reading.

I've sort of answered my own question the first train out of Euston I get is the 10:00 but a suggested departure from Taplow at 8:29.

08:29    Taplow [TAP]    4    London Paddington [PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)]
   09:16    13    0h 47m    

    null Seating Class Information
    null Cycle policy

     
First Great Western service from Reading to London Paddington show calling points
   
Tube    09:16    London Paddington [PAD]       London Euston [EUS]
   09:59       0h 43m    


Check for live travel updates
   
Train    10:00   London Euston [EUS]    4    Stoke-on-Trent [SOT]
   11:24    2    1h 24m    

However, I don't fancy trying to get from the tube at Euston Square to the train in 1 minute!

[Trowres]

Well I don't know if it answers your question, but the following qualification appears on some ticket restriction codes.

Holders of Off-Peak ticket types SVS/SVR, which are discounted using 16-25, Senior, Disabled Persons, HM Forces and Family & Friends Railcards, New Deal Photocards and Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards,
may use ANY Virgin_train service, provided that the route on the ticket is not "Virgin Trains Only" and the
journey being made is priced by Virgin Trains. If the journey is not priced by Virgin Trains then the stated
Off-Peak restictions apply.

 

[JayMac]

That restriction text is a little dated now. The railcard easement on Virgin services now applies only to SVS/SVH/SVR flows priced by Virgin AND for which the entire journey is on a Virgin train. The easement now reads:

Holders of Off-Peak ticket types SVS/SVR, which are discounted using 16-25, Senior, Disabled Persons, HM Forces and Family & Friends Railcards and New Deal Photocards, can travel on Virgin Train services at any time, provided that all travel is on Virgin Trains services only. (This easement is not permitted for travel between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston).

My emphasis in bold

Allegedly because other operators were not happy having Off Peak passengers on their Peak services. There were incidences of passengers on connecting services being incorrectly chinged for excesses or threatened with prosecution for travelling with an invalid ticket.

In some cases you'll need split ticketing to yield savings when the journey is not wholly with Virgin. Virgin themselves admitted as much in an information update sent to industry partners. That info was briefly on line back in December but has now gone. It said:

There has been some confusion on the use of railcards on Virgin Trains Services.

To clarify, customers purchasing off peak ticket types SVS/SVR, which are discounted using 16-25, Senior, Disabled Persons, HM Forces and Family & Friends Railcard, can travel on Virgin Trains services at any time.

An example of this, a customer travelling Euston to Manchester with a railcard can travel anytime with SVS/SVR.

However, if a customer starts their journey at Euston travelling to Bolton and is travelling during the peak time, an off peak ticket will not be offered using any railcard.

Separate tickets would need to be purchased between Euston-Manchester and Manchester - Bolton if a customer wants to take advantage of travelling during the peak with SVS/SVR and a valid railcard.

If a customer travels Blackpool- Euston leaving 07:00, an off peak ticket will not be offered in any retailing systems.

A separate ticket would need to be purchased between Blackpool and Preston.

This easement is not permitted for travel between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston.

Regarding catching a train from Taplow at 0829 on a Taplow to Stoke-on-Trent SVR. That is allowed thanks to something called the 'Network Area Easement':

Off-Peak tickets for journeys starting within the Network Area to destinations outside the Network Area with travel via London are valid by any train to London, to connect with trains from London.

Off-Peak tickets for journeys starting outside the Network Area for travel via London use restrictions from the origin station to London and return. Unless shown otherwise, they are unrestricted between London and the destination station, and return.

The Network Area refers broadly to the former Network SouthEast area, which Taplow is in. As shown on this current Network Area map:

http://www.railcard.co.uk/clientfiles/File/map.pdf


Finally you'll have more than 1 minute to get from Euston Square to your train from Euston. The journey planner you've used has applied the 43 minutes 'Cross London Transfer Time' between Paddington an Euston. That 43 minutes from 0916-0959 is not referencing the actual tube timetable, you'll find, all things being equal, that 43 minutes is plenty of a time for that transfer.

[Louis94]

08:29    Taplow [TAP]    4    London Paddington [PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)]
   09:16    13    0h 47m    

    null Seating Class Information
    null Cycle policy

     
First Great Western service from Reading to London Paddington show calling points
   
Tube    09:16    London Paddington [PAD]       London Euston [EUS]
   09:59       0h 43m    


Check for live travel updates
   
Train    10:00   London Euston [EUS]    4    Stoke-on-Trent [SOT]
   11:24    2    1h 24m    

However, I don't fancy trying to get from the tube at Euston Square to the train in 1 minute!

The journey on the tube refers to train to train at each terminal, and not station to station on the tube, therefore the 43 minutes allocated is from getting off one train and getting on another, of which 43 minutes is more than enough given the tube takes less than half that time!

[Trowres]

That restriction text is a little dated now. The railcard easement on Virgin services now applies only to SVS/SVH/SVR flows priced by Virgin AND for which the entire journey is on a Virgin train. The easement now reads:

Holders of Off-Peak ticket types SVS/SVR, which are discounted using 16-25, Senior, Disabled Persons, HM Forces and Family & Friends Railcards and New Deal Photocards, can travel on Virgin Train services at any time, provided that all travel is on Virgin Trains services only. (This easement is not permitted for travel between Milton Keynes Central and London Euston).

  Bah! I'd saved the original piece of text as an example of double-unplain T&C. Where did you find the current text, BNM? It seems to be absent from nationalrail.co.uk, the VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) website etc.




Moderator note: Edited to fix quote. bignosemac

[JayMac]

Trowres, I have that restriction text saved on my PC. It's an extract from 'The Manual'. My saved text is a few months old so I've just re-checked. Still the same as I posted, except that 'New Deal Photocards' has been replaced with 'Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount Card'.

I'm not aware that the easement is in the public domain, at least not online. I've heard that the easement is mentioned in a Virgin Trains' 'Tickets & Fares' leaflet out there at stations they operate, but I've yet to find a .pdf or see a scan of said leaflet.

Anyone travelling with Virgin soon or using facilities at a station they operate care to have a look and pick one up? 

Rather like FGW^▸ (First Great Western) with GroupSave, I suspect Virgin don't want the special offer publicised too widely.

[eightf48544]

Thanks for the confirmation bignosemac. Why are things so complicated?

It was another of my tougue in cheek moments, I have done Padd Euston Square too many times to count . However,I think it would be very confusing for someone who doesn't know London to find they've a minute to catch their train at Euston. TFL^▸ (Transport for London) journey planner is much better on bus/tube journies

Am I right in saying saying there are no Off Restrictions in the evening peak on TV services out of Padd.

That's why all the staff on the Central Division hated selling Off Peak tickets in the sixties. Trying to explain that they couldn't travel home between 16:30 and 18:30 was a real pain. It must be even worse today as the ones we sold were only to London on our own trains.

[JayMac]

Am I right in saying saying there are no Off Restrictions in the evening peak on TV services out of Padd.

Yep. Again because of the 'Network Area' Easement. Your return journey is from a station outside the area to one in it, via London. Time restrictions apply from Stoke-on-Trent to London Euston (cannot travel on any service scheduled to arrive Euston between 0720 and 1130), but no restrictions from London to Taplow.

[Brucey]

Anyone travelling with Virgin soon or using facilities at a station they operate care to have a look and pick one up? 

If I'm down that end of Milton Keynes this week, I'll see if I can obtain one there.  Virgin Trains have their own rack of timetables and other promotional leaflets at MKC^▸ (Milton Keynes Central).

Back in May, I asked Paul at Virgin Trains on Twitter about this easement:

Bruce B ‏@bruceb90
@VirginTrains Is the off-peak easement for railcard holders "thing" still available? Is there a link to the conditions?

Virgin Trains ‏@VirginTrains
@bruceb90 It is, though it was modified last year to stipulate that all travel on the ticket must be with Virgin Trains. It's not (1/2)

Virgin Trains ‏@VirginTrains
@bruceb90 (2/2) ...advertised on our site (nor on @nationalrailenq's site either) as it's an easement rather than a promotion ^PXL

Bruce B @bruceb90
@VirginTrains Thanks Paul. I assume it still doesn't apply between EUS and MKC?

Virgin Trains @VirginTrains
@bruceb90 That's still the case, yes. ^PXL