Cross Country overcrowding

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Operation Princess did not increase frequencies on the Cherwell Valley route, nor on the extremities if the network.
Therefore, it was still halving of seat numbers.

And as for Voyagers - working well out of the box?
Have you been on one? I could draw up a huge list of thier faults (and if you search on this forum, you will find such a list!).
They are the worst trains ever to set wheel in this country, and they should be scrapped asap and broken up with NONE PRESERVED.

And finally - there won't be many double Voyagers as 5 voyagers were sent to Virgin.

[willc]

Operation Princess did not increase frequencies on the Cherwell Valley route, nor on the extremities if the network.
Therefore, it was still halving of seat numbers.

Oh yes it did. Up from hourly to half-hourly between Birmingham and Reading - though on one particularly bad evening in autumn 2002, I saw three northbound Voyagers leave Oxford in the space of 15 minutes - so seat numbers per hour were and still are about the same.

I think the reference to Voyagers working out of the box was about their mechanical reliability, unlike a certain five-car 125mph DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) we could mention, not whether the passenger environment is any good or whether interior space was used efficiently by the designers.

[Worcester_Passenger]

If anybody wants to see what a Voyager should really look like, I recommend a trip on one of the ones that Virgin West Coast have refurbished. The coach with the buffet in it has been converted into what they apparently call a 'hybrid' class, so that it can be used as First or standard. Goodness knows why you'd want more First class, but apparently they do. But on the Birmingham - Scotland services, these coaches are in use as standard. They feature 2+2 seating, all at tables, with the tables lining up with the windows. I don't know what the reduction in seat numbers looks like. And I didn't look carefully enough at the luggage space that's been provided. Why Virgin couldn't have had them like this from day one is a mystery.

One slight problem. In order to make this work, they've been running the coaches in the order A (First) D (Shop/hybrid) B-C-F (standard). But the conductor I spoke to said that was due to change, with the First becoming coach F.

[eightf48544]

I understand that that the government have asked Network Rail if the the main Great Western main line to Bristol and Swansea could be wired up within a 5 year period.Network rails answer was they could do it in 3 years.If that is the case then an electrified GW^▸ (Great Western) main line would release valuable Refurbished HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) for use on Crosscountry at some point.We await the outcome of the governments electrification study in the new year.

HSTs I believe have to be withdrawn from service by 2020 and with only a small potential IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) order to replace the HSTs now on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) it looks like we will be stuck with Voyagers for some time.

Why do the HSTs have to be withdrawn in 2020? They will only be arounf 40 years old on average. A Mark 3 ought to be able to do 60 years, Ok you can replace/re-engine (again!) the 43s but the coaches should still be able to carry on. Also unfortunately, because the accidents shouldn't have occurred,  they've actually been proved to be very crash worthy.

[Zoe]

Why do the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have to be withdrawn in 2020?

I believe it's at least in part due to environmental reasons.  There is an EU^» (European Union - about) wide agreement to reduce carbon emissions by 20% by 2020.

[grahame]

Why do the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have to be withdrawn in 2020?

I believe it's at least in part due to environmental reasons.  There is an EU^» (European Union - about) wide agreement to reduce carbon emissions by 20% by 2020.

As I understand it, there's a number of stock types that have to be withdrawn by a date in December 2019 ... to the HSTs, add the pacers and the heritage DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).   I have heard [rumour] that there's also crush / safety rules with the pacers, and that fact that outward-opening, slam-door trains won't be allowed any more even with central door locking.

How things have changed - I remember being horrified when I was locked into a compartment on the Ffestiniog; now it's more discreet, but the norm.

[IndustryInsider]

Operation Princess did not increase frequencies on the Cherwell Valley route, nor on the extremities if the network.
Therefore, it was still halving of seat numbers.

Oh yes it did. Up from hourly to half-hourly between Birmingham and Reading - though on one particularly bad evening in autumn 2002, I saw three northbound Voyagers leave Oxford in the space of 15 minutes - so seat numbers per hour were and still are about the same.

I think the reference to Voyagers working out of the box was about their mechanical reliability, unlike a certain five-car 125mph DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) we could mention, not whether the passenger environment is any good or whether interior space was used efficiently by the designers.

Indeed. Thanks for clarifying that for me, Will. How many years were Adelante's being tested before finally (and very slowly) being released onto scheduled services?!

[vacman]

Funny you should mention the Ffestiniog Graham, I felt quite uneasy when I sat in one of their compartment coaches and got locked in, what struck me though was what would happen in the event of a fire? the windows are so small that any normal person couldn't fit through them!

[Super Guard]

In the South-West, delays are happening as XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) have removed most if not all of their slack time at places like Birmingham/Bristol/North, whereas before they get to the SW reasonably on-time, they all seemed yesterday afternoon/evening to be 15-30 late.

I was also told by XC that there would be no scheduled double sets of voyagers to the SW, unless they had a 'spare' set on the day, where they would make a decision then to run it double.

Nice to see more HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) with added capacity, but as normal, from what I saw yesterday evening there was a HST going north with not many on, whereas a 4 car voyager arrived going South crammed to the rafters.  They also have a policy of running the HSTs South during the morning and North during the afternoon/evening, so this situation looks unlikely to change.

[Zoe]

I would always go via London now, if you book in advance you can get some quite cheap fares if you buy separate tickets from the West to London and then from London to the North.  This can however be a risky strategy as if for any reason the train into Paddington is delayed and you miss your train from Kings Cross then you would have to buy at least an off peak single if not at anytime single.  I would advise that you leave at least 2 hours between arrival at Paddington and departure from Kings Cross in case of this.