Fingerprint and facial scans needed for travel into mainland Europe next year?

[whole diary]

[PrestburyRoad]

Earlier this month I holidayed in Fuerteventura, and I endured a lengthy queue at incoming border control.  While waiting I admired the large number of brand new e-gates that looked ready for reading e-passports such as we Brits have nowadays.  Alas they were not in use and everyone was manually checked at the small number of booths, at which our passports were stamped.  I thought to myself: if only the gates could be used then there wouldn't be this queue.  Therefore I would welcome the increased efficiency that could come once the Schengen border has got my face and fingerprint on record.

[Red Squirrel]

As an aside, about 1 in 100 people in this country migrated here, legally, in 2022. Is a lot of the talk around UK^▸ (United Kingdom) border controls akin to a conjuror waving a hanky above their head to distract your attention while they slip the ball under the cup?

[eightonedee]

Perhaps of some relevance to this debate, I have had my first two experiences of cross-border rail travel since the pandemic this autumn.

The first was a trip to southern Sweden in September. I flew into Copenhagen, and had my second Oresund Bridge rail trip (the first being as long ago as 2007 – how time flies!), starting at the very convenient airport station. On the train there was a multi-lingual announcement that at Hyllie, the first station on the Swedish side, there would be passport checks for those leaving the train. I understand that checks were re-introduced on the border during he 2016 “migrant crisis”. We were though travelling onto Malmo Central, but heard no further announcements.
On arrival at Malmo there was no further announcement. There was a (closed) customs post at the far end of the platform, but we were able to walk of the platform and out of the station with no checks, nor sign of any or any signage indicating any need to have passports checked. There were no controls at all on the way back. What was the point of the Hyllie checks? To justify what from the train looked like security fencing at the station?

The second was a trip to Lille on Eurostar that my wife and I took early in November. Here I had a personal first in just over 50 years’ travel to France. Not only was my passport scanned at St Pancras by the French immigration authorities, but it was checked by two officials afterwards as well, the second of whom put the first ever French passport stamp I have ever had. Again, what was the point as my passport had already been scanned?

BTW^▸ (by the way) – my view is that controlling movement is a Canute-like endeavour. Movement of people around the world is a natural phenomenon, and has been going on since time immemorial. The biggest problem of movement of undesirables is the internal one of the county line drug dealers moving out from major urban centres to set up networks to peddle their wares on our streets, not those from overseas wanting to better themselves either by coming here to work or study. My vote would be for someone who wanted us to join the Schengen area, but I am realistic enough to know that there’s no chance of that from anywhere on the political spectrum.

[JayMac]

Those identity cards in Europe don't stop migration to the countries that have them. Asylum seekers continue to cross the Mediterranean.

Indeed, They move on ...

Towards us.

Sweeping statement. They don't. Statistics show the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is well down the list of European nations, percentage wise, where asylum seekers and refugees end up.

In 2022 the UK processed 81,000 asylum applications. Spain 118,000. France 156,000. Germany 246,000. As a percentage of population, in 2022 Ireland processed more than twice as many asylum application than the UK.

Of course, gathering statistics on those who 'disappear' into a country after arriving through illegitimate means is very difficult. But the UK's detection, detention and deportation rates don't show any significant differences to those of other European nations.

[Oxonhutch]

I think some of the statistics might be a bit off the mark according to this article, with Germany well ahead at 197,540, France at 129,735 and Spain at 83,385. The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) numbers come next at 81,130 above all of the rest of EU^» (European Union - about) countries. On that first link one can expand the graph to see them all.

So I don't think we are not pulling our weight here. Of interest, look at the asylum rejection rates. The House of Commons report states that the UK rejection rate was 24% in 2022. Compare that to France for example in my first link or even Spain and compare the numbers of accepted asylum seekers. I am not anti-asylum nor anti-immigration.

Of course, gathering statistics on those who 'disappear' into a country after arriving through illegitimate means is very difficult. But the UK's detection, detention and deportation rates don't show any significant differences to those of other European nations.

This is the nub of my comment on 'uncontrolled immigration' that it is the open and porous state of British society and its economy that people can simply disappear. I would love to study the statistics quoted above but I suspect that in the UK without its national identity card (needed for all walks of life in the EU and elsewhere), the 'detection' element, compared to EU areas, is significantly lower.

[TaplowGreen]

I think some of the statistics might be a bit off the mark according to this article, with Germany well ahead at 197,540, France at 129,735 and Spain at 83,385. The UK^▸ (United Kingdom) numbers come next at 81,130 above all of the rest of EU^» (European Union - about) countries. On that first link one can expand the graph to see them all.

So I don't think we are not pulling our weight here. Of interest, look at the asylum rejection rates. The House of Commons report states that the UK rejection rate was 24% in 2022. Compare that to France for example in my first link or even Spain and compare the numbers of accepted asylum seekers. I am not anti-asylum nor anti-immigration.

Of course, gathering statistics on those who 'disappear' into a country after arriving through illegitimate means is very difficult. But the UK's detection, detention and deportation rates don't show any significant differences to those of other European nations.

This is the nub of my comment on 'uncontrolled immigration' that it is the open and porous state of British society and its economy that people can simply disappear. I would love to study the statistics quoted above but I suspect that in the UK without its national identity card (needed for all walks of life in the EU and elsewhere), the 'detection' element, compared to EU areas, is significantly lower.

Also in this context worth taking into account the size of those countries compared to the UK in the asylum seeker "Top Trumps" stakes - all in square miles.

France 210,020
Spain 195,365
Germany 137,882
UK 95,960

- Similarly I'm not anti-immigration, I live and work in the one of the most diverse areas of the country and as far as I'm concerned anyone who has something to offer and is willing to adapt to and abide by our culture, laws and traditions in exchange for the privilege of UK residency is welcome here.

[ChrisB]

The second was a trip to Lille on Eurostar that my wife and I took early in November. Here I had a personal first in just over 50 years’ travel to France. Not only was my passport scanned at St Pancras by the French immigration authorities, but it was checked by two officials afterwards as well, the second of whom put the first ever French passport stamp I have ever had. Again, what was the point as my passport had already been scanned?

To show you the date of entry/exit & so you can work out your 90 day limit.