Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 19:55 10 Jan 2025
 
* Three teens arrested over boy's bus station death
* Two million discounted tickets up for grabs in rail sale
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 14/01/25 - Rail Sale starts
24/01/25 - Westbury Station reopens
24/01/25 - LTP4 Wilts / Consultation end
24/01/25 - Bristol Rail Campaign AGM 2025

On this day
10th Jan (2017)
Defibrillators discussion pack published by Network Rail (link)

Train RunningCancelled
16:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
17:18 London Paddington to Swansea
19:04 Great Malvern to London Paddington
19:04 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington
19:36 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill
23:03 Salisbury to Portsmouth & Southsea
23:14 London Paddington to Oxford
Short Run
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington
18:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
18:38 Barnstaple to Exmouth
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
19:17 Exeter Central to Barnstaple
19:31 Okehampton to Exeter Central
19:35 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
22:50 Salisbury to Portsmouth Harbour
Delayed
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
19:22 Newquay to Par
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
January 10, 2025, 20:09:58 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[132] Westminster Hall debate : Railway services to South West
[85] Thames Valley infrastructure problems causing disruption elsew...
[81] Ryanair sues 'unruly' passenger over flight diversion
[72] Mick Lynch announces retirement as head of RMT
[53] GWR Advance Purchase sale - January 2025
[34] Birthday trip, Melksham to Penzance - 28th January 2025
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Horns not loud enough in Yorkshire  (Read 1104 times)
Hal
Full Member
***
Posts: 98


View Profile
« on: June 22, 2021, 10:34:24 »

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/residents-of-village-near-skipton-prevented-from-using-public-footpath-because-lner-azuma-trains-on-the-airedale-line-have-been-fitted-with-the-wrong-horns-3281483

The Yorkshire Post reports that residents of a village near Skipton have been banned from using a footpath because LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about) Azuma (Brand name for Class 80x trains on LNER) trains have been fitted with the wrong type of horn. The horns are deemed not loud enough to warn walkers of the train's approach at a point where the path crosses the railway.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7371


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2021, 19:07:52 »

We did have something before about this crossing - called Flosh, at least by the railways - here, and there is a later piece from the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):
Quote
A level crossing has been shut for more than six months because the horn used on the new Azuma (Brand name for Class 80x trains on LNER) trains is "too quiet".

Network Rail said the crossing, in Cononley, near Skipton, had been shut since December due to issues with "horn audibility"...

Mr Brown said: "We've been promised they will solve the problem by cutting back vegetation so people can see further up the line, but vegetation has the habit of growing back...

Network Rail has apologised for the inconvenience caused by the closure, adding it was "working to restore access across the railway at Cononley as soon as possible".

A spokesperson for Hitachi said: "All airhorns used on Class 800 trains comply with the standards that govern sound output levels, as set by the Rail Safety Standards Board.

That does have more direct from "the railway", NR» (Network Rail - home page) and Hitachi (if not LNER» (London North Eastern Railway - about)), which helps a bit. Note that NR did not say the horns were too quiet - that came from others - NR said they had "issues with horn audibility": subtly different. But the same problem remains as in the earlier reports: they make no sense. I even dug out all the applicable standards for this, and it still makes no sense.

The point here is that how loud the horn is (measured as its sound pressure level), as well as its frequencies, is a straightforward must-meet technical requirement for all trains, measured and enforced for all new ones. The numbers have not changed recently, though the applicable standards have. Dispensations from such rules are possible for existing trains if the rules change, but you'd never get one in this case for a new train.

Only recently did this appear as a discussion on railforums, and it's unusually hard on this thread to spot which posts are from insiders who know the facts. But a couple do at least potentially make sense of it. One says that the issue with Azuma horns is reliability - NR have assessed the risk that a horn doesn't sound on the high tone is so high that it pushes the risk at some foot-crossings over a threshold. These must be ones where the audible warning is necessary due to short sighting distances, and ten more have been closed as well. The other post adds that there is no whistle board in the Up direction (from Skipton), and on Google Earth there's no sign of trees that would block sighting that way (northwards).

There's no sign Hitachi agree with NR's view of this. (Maybe they are busy...) And is the same issue known for GWR (Great Western Railway) 80xs? As they are the same design, you would expect exactly the same horns fitted in the same way. Also, horns on several train types have been known to stop working when stuffed full of snow, and in very cold damp weather (capable of producing icing or not). These issues are presumably down to details of the possible routes for air to be forced into the horn mounting area at speed and what's exposed to that.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 18:20:24 by stuving » Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page