First Class Confusion courtesy of Thameslink

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

Struggling to understand how the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) holds the position it does here. *Reads it again*. No, still struggling.

Mark

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/teenager-fined-129-after-sitting-30557214

[Chris from Nailsea]

 

[ChrisB]

Quite. I'm not sure what Mark A is finding difficult to understand?

[Mark A]

Sooo, 'The first class at the rear of the train and not at the front'. So, is it that the train has two first class sections - and declassifies one or the other depending on the direction of the train? After which they deploy 'Messages that the first class area may be used if the train is busy'? Is that what they do?

Mark

[Chris from Nailsea]

Eh?

From the Manchester Evening News:

A teenager was left flabbergasted when he was fined more than £100 for sitting in the 'wrong first class' of a Thameslink train. Theo Griffiths, 19, from Boston, Lincolnshire, was hit with a penalty fare of £129.50 while travelling on a train to London Kings Cross after sitting at the front of the train.

He had a standard ticket, but assumed he could use first-class seating on the ‘very full’ train, after messages that the first class area may be used if the train is busy.

My highlighting.

CfN.  

[ChrisB]

Not backed up anywhere - so unlikely in my view - getting it muddled with messages about the rear being declassified.

He commutes regularly on that route it seems. That message shows in the 'front' 1st class section, so not sure how you miss it.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Manchester Evening News:

Theo said: “The guard was very rude and hostile. Others who also got fined argued back, they got £100 and £150 fines. He couldn’t even answer me when I asked if the 21-day reduced penalty period paused if you appealed – he said he didn’t know.

...

The passenger took to X (formerly Twitter) to try to resolve his complaint and was backed by other users. One said: “Welcome to the illogical UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail network and their antiquated, not fit for purpose rules, regulations and ludicrous ticketing system. They spend more on "revenue protection" than actual revenue growth.”

Another added: “Absolutely disgraceful and predatory behaviour. I hope you get it overturned.”

Theo asked the company to “explain the difference from sitting in the back first class, where it’s allowed, to the front." Thameslink responded: “Hi Theo, are you able to advise where you boarded the train, what time and direction please?

“If the front, first class facilities were in action and you didn't hold a first class ticket then travelling in this portion of the train could result in a penalty fare.”

That wasn't made clear in the on-board information screens.

(My highlighting).

[ChrisB]

sorry Chris - what wasn't exactly?

[Chris from Nailsea]

The on-board information screens made no reference to the difference between the 'front' first class area and the 'rear' first class areas: it simply said, "This area may be used by customers holding standard class tickets."

I'm not going to use any more highlighting - my pen's running out. 

[ChrisB]

That notice was only displayed in the REAR section of 1st class - so it applied if you could read/see it. The front section had no such notice - and the screens swapped around as the train reversed direction of travel, so only appeared in the rear section. ever.

[Mark A]

Yeah, I understand what it is now. First class on Thameslink: its primary function is that it's a trap.

The giveaway is that the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) does not permit passengers to excess to 1st class on board the train, first class tickets are purchaseable only from... a ticket office.

If their passengers end up in court over this, the TOC should send a representative along too as court jester, as the court might well find their account of this aspect of their business quite funny. Especially as the TOC is in the habit of having their staff make verbal announcements that 1st Class is declassified, something that further blurs their already tattered and washed out lines.

This is the Thameslink equivalent of, say, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s "Passengers with standard class tickets must not enter the first class section of the train" - occasionally coupled with "We apologise that we are unable to bring the refreshments trolley through the train as the urn isn't warm yet, standard class passengers requiring hot drinks please make your way to the door at the front of coach 'L' where we will be pleased to serve you."

Mark

[Electric train]

Sooo, 'The first class at the rear of the train and not at the front'. So, is it that the train has two first class sections - and declassifies one or the other depending on the direction of the train? After which they deploy 'Messages that the first class area may be used if the train is busy'? Is that what they do?

Mark

Yes, but does not apply to trains on the Sutton loop as these do not have 1st Class, so both are declassified. 

The provision of 1st class accommodation on the trains was question at the time of the train procurement, First Capital Connect (the predecessor ToC to GTR) were concerned over the loss of revenue on certain routes also some very vocal 1st class commuters from Brighton, Cambridge etc