State of the Nation - transport, Cornwall

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

The argument about not having a steep rise if the fare has been under-priced for years seems to be the same one used for keeping fares on the Severn Beach line low.  If the fare is really too low I don't see why it shouldn't be increased to a reasonable amount.  Otherwise you might have the situation where an operator wants to start with a low fare to encourage business, (which must be a reasonable thing to do, and no different to any business looking to get new customers), but can't do that because it will then be criticised (or prevented)when it wants to put the fare up to the right long term level.

Many fares across the country are lower in one area on a pence per mile basis than fares in other area. Should the Anytime Return fare from Evesham to London (£83.00) be raised to the same level as the Anytime Return from Chippenham to London (£178)? Roughly the same distance. Which one is at the right long term level?

Encourage new business with a low fare at the start by all means. But we're not talking about a recently introduced product. The Ride Cornwall has been around for well over a decade. Only since January 2017 has the priced climbed from £10. First to £13, and now to £18. The latest increase most egregious as it no longer allows a discount to Railcard holders.

These price increase could well turn people away from the product. There's a real danger the fare take for Ride Cornwall could actually drop. Leisure visitors to Cornwall may think twice about paying for the product. A family of four will now be paying £54 for a days rail and bus travel. Prior to January 2017 they would have paid £26. If they've brought their car across the Tamar they may very well stick to using it.

And yes, you can regulate fares that are available for use across different modes of public transport. And with Ride Cornwall we're largely talking about First Rail and First Bus.

I remain very cynical about this price rise. I may well ask GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) Fares Implementation Manager directly for an explanation of the price rise.

[GBM]

.... The latest increase most egregious as it no longer allows a discount to Railcard holders.

When purchased on a bus, no discount cards were valid.
Regardless of what card you held, it was full price or nothing.
Quite a few walked off in a huff or just purchased a single to the nearest railway station and purchased said ticket with their discount card.
"Sorry guv; my system won't allow discounts" That was on the Almex and it's successor, the Ticketer

[LiskeardRich]

The Ride Cornwall time restriction has also been removed from the bus element.

Looking back through Wayback Machine, there were no time restrictions on buses early this decade. Searched back to 2011.

The restriction was applicable until this price increase. On First Ticketer machines it was greyed out and couldn’t be sold before 9.

A restriction on selling them? What if one is presented before 0900 after being purchased from a station, TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), or online?

Not valid as per the T&Cs, which have now been amended

[old original]

.....Afamily of four will now be paying £54 for a days rail and bus travel. /quote]


Sorry that's incorrect, a family ticket for 2 adults and upto 3 children is still available now at £36.

[JayMac]

Sorry that's incorrect, a family ticket for 2 adults and upto 3 children is still available now at £36.

You are correct. I didn't consult enough sources. Just like a customer probably wouldn't.

That information needs to be on the National Rail Enquiries website. There it says "Family N/A" under 'Pricing' on the Ride Cornwall information page.

Said information is also missing from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s Rangers & Rovers page - which is still showing the old prices.

And if you make a booking on GWR's online ticketing system's Rover page and input 2 adults and 2 children the total price comes out at £54.

Really is unacceptable that the official sources of information and retailing have incorrect information. Over at BRFares, an unnoficial source, the information correct. The Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership also have the correct information. If operators can communicate the changes to stakeholders and input the data into licensed systems for third parties then they should be able to update their own website.

Instead they put their front line staff and customer services operatives in the firing line when customers go to make a purchase and find the information they have sought from official sources is incorrect.

[old original]

Instead they put their front line staff and customer services operatives in the firing line when customers go to make a purchase and find the information they have sought from official sources is incorrect.

Oh, I know!! 😉

[Celestial]

These price increase could well turn people away from the product. There's a real danger the fare take for Ride Cornwall could actually drop. Leisure visitors to Cornwall may think twice about paying for the product. A family of four will now be paying £54 for a days rail and bus travel. Prior to January 2017 they would have paid £26. If they've brought their car across the Tamar they may very well stick to using it.

And yes, you can regulate fares that are available for use across different modes of public transport. And with Ride Cornwall we're largely talking about First Rail and First Bus.
 

Isn't it a commercial decision as to whether it turns people away or fare take drops?  If the feeling is that Ride Cornwall was reducing fare income by being too low (which I suspect it was) then they may be happy with that.

I'm not sure how you regulate fares across buses and trains, except in Metropolitan areas where the same organisation effectively runs both. Surely DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) could not put in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)'s contract a condition which obliged it to offer a bus/rail fare at a controlled fare without the bus companies agreeing, which they never would.  DfT has no contract with the bus companies and although some of the services may be supported by the local council, many will be commercially run. I don't think it matters that the main operators are First Bus and Rail, as others are involved (Cross Country and other bus companies), and the operators may change in future.

I agree that there needs to be some regulation of fares, but I think it would be taking it too far to insist that every fare, special offer, joint arrangement was regulated. There would then be no incentive for any operator to introduce any special offer.  eg SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) introduce a £5 fare to Corfe Castle, 2 years later want to increase it to £8 and are told they can only increase it by inflation as it has become regulated.   





 

[LiskeardRich]

I don’t know what the sales of Ride Cornwall were like before or after price rise, but the only Ride Cornwall tickets I’ve ever seen was a member of this forum who makes contact to find out my duty and pop and say Hi when he’s about on such a ticket. Maybe 3-4 times I’ve seen him present me with a Ride Cornwall. He plans visiting me into his day so distorts my Ride Cornwall ticket holder figures I take!

[RailCornwall]

I've no issue with rising fares, as long as they are reasonable, the cost of Ride Cornwall should have been repointed over a number of years, with annual increases of no more than 10pct. The withdrawal of the Railcard discount on the other hand should have been retained. The issue of bus drivers being unable to issue it is smoke and mirrors.

[Andy]

I've no issue with rising fares, as long as they are reasonable, the cost of Ride Cornwall should have been repointed over a number of years, with annual increases of no more than 10pct. The withdrawal of the Railcard discount on the other hand should have been retained. The issue of bus drivers being unable to issue it is smoke and mirrors.

It's a fair point to say that annual rises are reasonable but 10% seems excessive to me; not many people using these tickets see a 10% annual rise in their income. I'll be using it this summer and my income hasn't risen by 10% for a very long time!!

[RailCornwall]

More Cornish Fare confuddlement this time involving The Bodmin and Wenford Railway.

Arrive at Bodmin Parkway or Bodmin General via your own means, buy a day pass on the B&WR - £13.50.

Go to any station on the National Network, excluding Bodmin Parkway, west of and including Plymouth, or buy on board, get a through ticket to the B&WR including National Rail travel - £13.00.

[grahame]

Arrive at Bodmin Parkway or Bodmin General via your own means, buy a day pass on the B&WR - £13.50.

Go to any station on the National Network, excluding Bodmin Parkway, west of and including Plymouth, or buy on board, get a through ticket to the B&WR including National Rail travel - £13.00.

Can't you go into the ticket office at Bodmin Parkway and buy a Menheniot to B&WR day pass at £13.00 and simply not use the National Rail part?

[LiskeardRich]

Isn’t the £13.00 fare just one round trip rather than a day ticket, thus comparing apples and pears?

[grahame]

Isn’t the £13.00 fare just one round trip rather than a day ticket, thus comparing apples and pears?

Unclear to me.   Sounds like the through ticket fare has failed to rise in line with line-only fares when they were intended to be the same:

From ... https://bodminrailway.co.uk/plan-your-visit/timetables-and-fares/

Inclusive through ticketing

If travelling to us by train, we have an inclusive ticketing arrangement to allow you to travel to and on our railway from any mainline station in Cornwall & Plymouth for our Freedom of the Line fare, and from any station in Devon at a special rate. Go to any First Great Western ticket office in Cornwall or Devon to purchase tickets for this special offer.

Wording could do with clarification if it's one round trip or freedom of line, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) changed to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).  Noting as worded it comes across as not being available from stations without ticket facilities.  Brfares does include the ticket (use code L100), and it says ...

One journey in each direction to be made within
Outward Validity:   SEE RESTRICTNS
Return Validity:   SEE RESTRICTNS

Fare not being offered in opposite direction - so no £13 day trip for people who are staying in Bodmin and want to use the railway for a day trip to, say Looe.   But I don't see the "outward ticket must be used before inward ticket" wording.

Above response is online research - I really should leave it for someone 'on the ground' to confirm status on this fare.