Bristol City Centre to North Fringe Rapid Transit

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

Being parochial for a moment, I was very interested to spot this on p.168 the January 2020 draft of JLTP4:

T4

Bristol City Centre to North Fringe

A dedicated, segregated mass transit route providing high frequency, higher capacity and faster public transport services between central Bristol, North Bristol and the North Fringe with associated infrastructure to provide a high quality passenger experience. Constraints on the A38 Gloucester Road and other corridors mean that an underground alignment should be considered as one of the options to fully achieve the scheme objectives. This scheme would be complementary to the North Fringe – Hengrove metrobus scheme currently being delivered and the planned MetroWest programme.

If you'd asked me last week, I'd have agreed that the only option was to go underground. Now, in light of Steve Melia's comments, I'm not so sure.

How about this for an alternative: Close the Gloucester Road to all through private cars, from Zetland Road Junction to the junction with Ashley Down Road. Run a tramway straight down the Gloucester Road. Divert through traffic via Muller Road or Ashley Down Road/Cromwell Road Do nothing to increase the capacity of these roads, but take measures to mitigate the effect of extra traffic for pedestrians and cyclists.

South of Zetland Road Junction, there is probably room to run a tram down Cheltenham Road towards town. Traffic levels will be lower as there will be no through route to the north. North of Muller Road, there is a potential route across Horfield Common into Southmead Hospital (via Dorian Road) and onwards.

The shopkeepers of Gloucester Road would no doubt see it as the end of the world - much as the Broadmead shopkeepers did when Broadmead was pedestrianised. It wasn't, and they were wrong. 

Private car drivers will, rightly, complain that they are being squeezed out. But that's exactly want we need to achieve!

[eightf48544]

Private car drivers will, rightly, complain that they are being squeezed out. But that's exactly want we need to achieve!

i've always thought on stret trams an excellent way of reducing traffic in city centres.

Especialy if routes are pedestrianised, trams are given priority at junctions and drivers fined for obstructing trams (a la bus lanes).

i can't really comment on your exact proposal as I don't knw the geography of Bristol that well, Bristol has always struck as an ideal place for tram trains Linking the Portishead and Avonmouth lines through the City Centre as well as Temple Meads.

[Bmblbzzz]

The shopkeepers of Gloucester Road would no doubt see it as the end of the world - much as the Broadmead shopkeepers did when Broadmead was pedestrianised. It wasn't, and they were wrong. 

We're talking about "Europe's longest continuous row of independent shops" (though I'm never quite sure which shops this is meant to include). There would be squeals from many but support from others, I think, particularly if the tram stops were in the right places, the service was frequent enough and the whole road width became, effectively, pavement. There would obviously need to be thought given to people wandering across the tracks. Saturday mornings you can't move on the present pavement, especially on the eastern side, due to the throngs of shoppers and strollers, particularly families with kids in push chairs.

South of Zetland Road Junction, there is probably room to run a tram down Cheltenham Road towards town. Traffic levels will be lower as there will be no through route to the north.

Certainly plenty of room if other vehicles share the tram tracks. It's a bit narrower from Arley Hill to City Road junctions, I'd say, but nothing insurmountable. But it needs a sensible terminus too. Broadmead? Bus station? Centre (why is that called the centre when it's not quite – oh yeah!)?

[ellendune]

Divert through traffic via Muller Road or Ashley Down Road/Cromwell Road Do nothing to increase the capacity of these roads, but take measures to mitigate the effect of extra traffic for pedestrians and cyclists.

Wouldn't it make more sense to divert the traffic Ashley Down Road/Ashley Hill (B4052) and Ashley Road (B4051)?  They are classified roads and are wider than Cromwell Road IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly).

[Red Squirrel]

Divert through traffic via Muller Road or Ashley Down Road/Cromwell Road Do nothing to increase the capacity of these roads, but take measures to mitigate the effect of extra traffic for pedestrians and cyclists.

Wouldn't it make more sense to divert the traffic Ashley Down Road/Ashley Hill (B4052) and Ashley Road (B4051)?  They are classified roads and are wider than Cromwell Road IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly).

You're probably right.

It's all fantasy highway engineering, of course. I doubt any politician who wanted to get re-elected would seriously advocate any of this. we can however hope that we can at least persuade them not to built any new roads. It's not a zero sum game, but by FoSBR^» (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways - site)'s analysis there's north of £900 million of roads planned in the WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about) area. It seems beyond bizarre to invest quite so much in making GHG^▸ (Greenhouse gas) emissions worse.

[TonyK]

Being parochial for a moment, I was very interested to spot this on p.168 the January 2020 draft of JLTP4:

T4

Bristol City Centre to North Fringe

A dedicated, segregated mass transit route providing high frequency, higher capacity and faster public transport services between central Bristol, North Bristol and the North Fringe with associated infrastructure to provide a high quality passenger experience. Constraints on the A38 Gloucester Road and other corridors mean that an underground alignment should be considered as one of the options to fully achieve the scheme objectives. This scheme would be complementary to the North Fringe – Hengrove metrobus scheme currently being delivered and the planned MetroWest programme.

If you'd asked me last week, I'd have agreed that the only option was to go underground. Now, in light of Steve Melia's comments, I'm not so sure.

How about this for an alternative: Close the Gloucester Road to all through private cars, from Zetland Road Junction to the junction with Ashley Down Road. Run a tramway straight down the Gloucester Road. Divert through traffic via Muller Road or Ashley Down Road/Cromwell Road Do nothing to increase the capacity of these roads, but take measures to mitigate the effect of extra traffic for pedestrians and cyclists.

South of Zetland Road Junction, there is probably room to run a tram down Cheltenham Road towards town. Traffic levels will be lower as there will be no through route to the north. North of Muller Road, there is a potential route across Horfield Common into Southmead Hospital (via Dorian Road) and onwards.

The shopkeepers of Gloucester Road would no doubt see it as the end of the world - much as the Broadmead shopkeepers did when Broadmead was pedestrianised. It wasn't, and they were wrong. 

Private car drivers will, rightly, complain that they are being squeezed out. But that's exactly want we need to achieve!

I agree that it would be an excellent route. It would give a very good first step towards a tram network. I think any fears of the local businesses would be unfounded - parking a car on Gloucester Road now is a task involving hope more than expectation, and the local populace is known for moving around on foot or cycle. The A-road status may queer the pitch slightly, access would be needed for deliveries and the few dead-end streets off there (I used to live in one), but it must be possible. I should think though that "mass transit" will most likely turn out to be buses, painted a different colour and with free wifi to help while away the hours spent in traffic jams.

It's all fantasy highway engineering, of course. I doubt any politician who wanted to get re-elected would seriously advocate any of this. we can however hope that we can at least persuade them not to built any new roads. It's not a zero sum game, but by FoSBR^» (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways - site)'s analysis there's north of £900 million of roads planned in the WECA^» (West of England Combined Authority - about) area. It seems beyond bizarre to invest quite so much in making GHG^▸ (Greenhouse gas) emissions worse.

I agree largely, but when the last Austin Brexit has coughed its last and the whole country has a fleet of electric cars, we will still need roads.