Economics of operation of shorter trains

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Posting here in "Bristol Commuters" because my question / examples are for the St Philip's Marsh based 15x and 16x fleets - but the question asked may be wider.

Looking back many years on this forum, I recall discussions looking at the economic case for adding a third carriage to a two car train to help reduce / eliminate overcrowding, and coming to the conclusion that adding a third carriage was a pretty expensive proposition for a short section of a peak journey.  The number of extra passengers generated for "the 12 minutes from Keynsham to Temple Meads in the morning and the 6 minutes back at night" were going to be paying at the fare box way below the hire and maintenance cost of that extra carriage through the year, and during the rest of the day it was going to be over-provision.   Of course, market (customer) sentiment and potential growth were factors which encourgaed provision of the extra capacity even if it wasn' paying for itself straight away.

I'm seeing lots of short forms and crowding at present and I am aware that much of it is caused by a reduction in the number of trains coming into the Bristol area with things like electrification to Oxford and some of the Thames branches not happeneing as scheduled, so reducing cascades, with at the same time most 150/1s and 153s headed off to pastures new, as it seems that cascades in can be delayed, but cascades out cannot.  But a question - is in financially convenient to be running shorter trains, loosing not-too-many passengers because they will cram in, and loosing less-than-might-be expected goodwill because you can point at the modernisation program and assure people that (a) you as the operator are the victim of circumstances and (b) you (as a train operator) are a victim of the hand you have been given.

[froome]

I was going to post today about travelling on just such a service yesterday, the 1648 from Temple Meads, which is the first train for an hour to make the stopping journey to Bath, so is always exceptionally crowded, this being the rush hour. It was run as a two carriage train yesterday and was horrendously overcrowded, to the point where some people couldn't get on, which if they were going towards Weymouth would have meant they were very heavily delayed.

Overcrowding like this does put people off using trains altogether. It is a comment I've often heard from other customers, either friends or those who happen to be in the same carriage as me. But it has other detrimental effects as well. An example from yesterday is a family of five who were sat in my carriage, the woman heavily pregnant and three young children about 5 years old and upwards. They wanted to get out at Keynsham, but it was almost impossible for them to get past all those who were having to stand in the aisle. They were still some distance from the door when the bleeper went to indicate the doors were shutting. Fortunately we all shouted down the carriage and someone standing near the door managed to stop it shutting, presumably by standing in the doorway, though I would personally find that just as unnerving. But it must have been incredibly stressful for them.

At Temple Meads the train was supposed to be on platform 11 but was sat somewhere in the nether region between 11 and 12, so that some of those who came up the stairs presumed their train hadn't yet come in because it looked as if the only train was on platform 12 (I could only just read the destination on the train by walking down towards it). I'm sure there were some who missed the chance of trying to get on because of that, I certainly saw many people running down the platform at the last minute. One bit of me wonders whether this might have been deliberate, given that it was obvious not everyone who wanted to get on would be able to.

[froome]

I should add that Graham talks about the crowding from Temple Meads to Keynsham, but the crowding lasts far longer than that. Certainly always to Oldfield Park, but on the few journeys at rush hour I've taken eastwards from there, the trains have always been packed at the least, and on occasions severely overcrowded, right down to Bradford on Avon and Trowbridge. Economically, having extra carriages on these services at least as far as Westbury must make sense.

[WSW Frome]

The unit used for the 16.48 BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-WEY has typically been a 3 car 158 operating from a Brighton/Great Malvern diagram. It then forms the 20.21 WEY-BRI and home to its bed.

So is the current situation due to a diagram change, or simply the ongoing rolling stock problems and related chaos?

[RA]

At Temple Meads the train was supposed to be on platform 11 but was sat somewhere in the nether region between 11 and 12, so that some of those who came up the stairs presumed their train hadn't yet come in because it looked as if the only train was on platform 12 (I could only just read the destination on the train by walking down towards it). I'm sure there were some who missed the chance of trying to get on because of that, I certainly saw many people running down the platform at the last minute. One bit of me wonders whether this might have been deliberate, given that it was obvious not everyone who wanted to get on would be able to.

This is unfortunately a side effect of the Bristol Temple Meads resignalling. Trains that reverse at Temple Meads must now stop just short of the blue boxes found on the platform edge below the mid-platform signals (the signals that split the platforms into odd and even numbers). The shorter the train, the further away it will be from the stairs. Not too bad on platforms 5 and 7, a bit of a walk on platforms 9 and 11 but a very long hike on platform 3!

As trains are now required to stop close to the mid-platform signals and the signals are close together back to back, a 10 miles per hour speed limit applies to all trains entering platforms 3-12 to mitigate against a collision between trains in such platforms; another side effect of the resignalling!

[WelshBluebird]

At Temple Meads the train was supposed to be on platform 11 but was sat somewhere in the nether region between 11 and 12, so that some of those who came up the stairs presumed their train hadn't yet come in because it looked as if the only train was on platform 12 (I could only just read the destination on the train by walking down towards it). I'm sure there were some who missed the chance of trying to get on because of that, I certainly saw many people running down the platform at the last minute. One bit of me wonders whether this might have been deliberate, given that it was obvious not everyone who wanted to get on would be able to.

The stopping locations have changed since the works around Easter time, whilst I can't remember exactly where it now is, I do remember the stopping location for platform 11 having changed a fair bit so that it is now basically around where the Pumpkin cafe is. (edit, I see RA has replied in the time I was typing this saying the same!).

I should add that Graham talks about the crowding from Temple Meads to Keynsham, but the crowding lasts far longer than that. Certainly always to Oldfield Park, but on the few journeys at rush hour I've taken eastwards from there, the trains have always been packed at the least, and on occasions severely overcrowded, right down to Bradford on Avon and Trowbridge. Economically, having extra carriages on these services at least as far as Westbury must make sense.

You also have the problem of people jumping on these trains to get to Bath, when in an ideal world they'd be getting the Cardiff - Portsmouth services (well maybe not yet, but when they start to run as 5 car turbos), or even better the London bound high speed services.

[froome]

At Temple Meads the train was supposed to be on platform 11 but was sat somewhere in the nether region between 11 and 12, so that some of those who came up the stairs presumed their train hadn't yet come in because it looked as if the only train was on platform 12 (I could only just read the destination on the train by walking down towards it). I'm sure there were some who missed the chance of trying to get on because of that, I certainly saw many people running down the platform at the last minute. One bit of me wonders whether this might have been deliberate, given that it was obvious not everyone who wanted to get on would be able to.

This is unfortunately a side effect of the Bristol Temple Meads resignalling. Trains that reverse at Temple Meads must now stop just short of the blue boxes found on the platform edge below the mid-platform signals (the signals that split the platforms into odd and even numbers). The shorter the train, the further away it will be from the stairs. Not too bad on platforms 5 and 7, a bit of a walk on platforms 9 and 11 but a very long hike on platform 3!

As trains are now required to stop close to the mid-platform signals and the signals are close together back to back, a 10 miles per hour speed limit applies to all trains entering platforms 3-12 to mitigate against a collision between trains in such platforms; another side effect of the resignalling!

It is a pity there is nothing to tell passengers this. When you come up the stairs and find lots of other people waiting on the platform there, you assume it is for the next train shown as timetabled for there.

[tramway]

Sadly they didn't alter the signage to accommodate the alterations. Certainly the subway should have been altered to indicate platform 11 is also up the other stairs would have helped.

Also there used to be platform announcements regarding Bath passengers trying to get on short formed trains that there were more comfortable options. That seems to have stopped and it's now a free for all.

[froome]

Also there used to be platform announcements regarding Bath passengers trying to get on short formed trains that there were more comfortable options. That seems to have stopped and it's now a free for all.

It's actually worse than that. A few days ago, when the fast train to Bath Spa was running late, the announcement just advised people going to Bath that the next train there was now the stopping train, which consequently was in even more demand by all those who had been waiting for the HST^▸ (High Speed Train).

[tramway]

Lunacy. 

At least when the Pompey is a little late running the regular Bathites are in the starting blocks to swap platforms knowing the PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) will be let out first.