Another Possible Use for Adelantes

[whole diary]

[John R]

Grand Central have put in a Track Access Request to ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) for a 4th service, starting May. In it they talk about using Class 180s and state they are in negotiations with Angel Trains and NR^» (Network Rail - home page).

[Btline]

FTPE^» (First TransPennine Express - website) need them. At the moment, they are operating 100 mph stock (185 desiros) on the Manchester to Glasgow run.

The Desiros have less seats than the old Virgin Voyagers, and because of stock shortages, they have axed the Manchester to Windermere service (there is now a shuttle from Oxenholme to Windermere - discouraging tourism by rail from Manchester/Manchester Airport).

To compensate for this, the Glasgow (supposedly express) trains have to make more stops.

Basically, the trains are:
*slower
*more congested

So FTPE should have some.

[swlines]

Btline, 185s are faster accelerating than 180s and the speed differential between the two units is negligible as for non tilt units on the west coast mainline the average speed is approximately 95mph as I remember correctly - the acceleration of the 185s do well in this respect and would basically have the same journey times as the 180s if they were on this route... so no go on that one.

If we were to have an improvement on this route it would do well if it was made by the use of an additional coach in each 185 set.

(TC^‡(resolve) sitting on Edinburgh station...)

[Btline]

Perhaps, but the other problem is the additional stops, the overcrowding between Preston and Manchester, and the fact that the Windermere service has been axed to a shuttle.

Any stock would do.

An extra coach would help.

[swlines]

I think the shuttle service although it doesn't provide through connections is better for the running railway itself as it self contains it preventing delays which as I understand was quite an issue due to stock shortages even when the Glasgow and Edinburghs were not in operation.

I agree there is some overcrowding but the govt don't seem that interested in trying to prevent this on this particular route primarily as it's not Labour country as I understand!

[willc]

I agree there is some overcrowding but the govt don't seem that interested in trying to prevent this on this particular route primarily as it's not Labour country as I understand!

Er, Manchester, Bolton (among its MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) a certain Ruth Kelly), Preston, Carlisle, Motherwell and Glasgow are all Labour territory. The intervening (mostly sparsely populated) areas of England and Scotland are covered by a grand total of about four or five MPs and, except for Lancaster, account for a small proportion of the traffic on the route.

[swlines]

I don't check politics that closely

To be honest I think the govt would rather that route be gone and just not served....

[eightf48544]

I don't check politics that closely

To be honest I think the govt would rather that route be gone and just not served....

You're probably right, but if we had a rational transport policy (ha ha) Manchester to the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) would be a prime candidate for electrifiction. Both via Bolton and Wigan. If Wigan Liverpool and Preston to Blackpool were also electrified, it would make better use of wires North of Preston.

A few years back on canal trip on the Lancaster canal, via the Ribble link, which runs parallel to the WCML ; 75% of the trains seen were diesel. What a nonsense.

I would also have thought a through Manachester Glasgow service was more viable than a Warminister to Great Malvern service.

[Lee]

I would also have thought a through Manachester Glasgow service was more viable than a Warminister to Great Malvern service.

The vast majority of the Warminster originating/terminating trains are a result of trying to satisfy the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) specification of part of the TransWilts by doing the bare minimum. The Save The Train Pledge Campaign page has more on this, including details of an option aimed at resolving this currently under consideration by FGW^▸ (First Great Western).
http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/pabout.html

[Btline]

I think the shuttle service although it doesn't provide through connections is better for the running railway itself as it self contains it preventing delays which as I understand was quite an issue due to stock shortages even when the Glasgow and Edinburghs were not in operation.

I agree there is some overcrowding but the govt don't seem that interested in trying to prevent this on this particular route primarily as it's not Labour country as I understand!

Your right. The LakesLine is single track throughout - single platforms and all.

Now there is just one train on it - it is completely isolated, so is nore reliable.

But - the tourism board think it will damage tourists coming by rail from abroad (airport) or just from Manchester.