Question 2 for Ben Rule - 19.12 - Buffet cars v Trolley service

[whole diary]

[chrisr_75]

I reckon if the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) statements are correct, the Pullman service will have a very short lifespan. After the reduction in 1st class capacity (any many questioning whether it should exist at all), I cannot see the general public or DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) would tolerate certain long distance services having no buffet/shop service to standard class whatsoever when there is a full restaurant (albeit paid for) available to 1st class customers.

However, I suspect that the GWR representative has made a mistake.

Why would the Pullman service have a short lifespan, the First Class section is roughly the same name as it is in the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train), greater infact in a 10 car set. And I was told 2 years ago by GWR that they even want to expand the service where possible. Why would they want to loose something that brings in money for them?

Same reason first class now has about half the capacity it used to - government and media pressure. Quite rightly, few would tolerate having a full restaurant service on a train with no other opportunity for food/drink in standard class. I thought I had made my point quite clearly in my original post?

As I correctly predicted, the GWR spokesperson who suggested there would be no trolley service on Pullman trains was incorrect, so this is and was a largely academic discussion.

[broadgage]

Ben Rule last night at the ACORP^▸ (Association of Community Rail Partnerships) Awards....every IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) *will* have a trolley (or two on a 10car & I think, 9cars) in Standard! The parking bays for these are unaffected by whether the train is a Pullman. There will also be a 1st class trolley (again, two on a 10car) but when I asked whether that includes Pullmans, he wasn't sure about 5car IETs or whether a member of the Pullman crew would serve the non-diners in the same 1st class area. There would be in the second 1st class section on 10car IETs. They will be higher spec trolleys as discussed previously.

Hopefully, this is now settled

Well the new units are now in use, and only one trolley in a 5+5 trains seems to be a regular feature. If indeed a trolley appears at all.
I presume that the hot food offer in standard class has become an aspiration.
And what about the higher spec trolleys, also dropped I assume.

So for all the high sounding promises and words, we have ended up with outer suburban DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), with no buffet, and SOMETIMES a basic trolley broadly similar to that offered on secondary routes and outer suburban services.
So much for so called inter city trains.

[bobm]

I will admit I’ve only travelled on an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) a couple of dozen times but I cannot remember an occasion when a trolley didn’t come through. 

More interesting is I’ve only bought something on around 25% of times.

[JayMac]

And whilst it proves nothing I've travelled 3 times on a double set IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) and each time there was a trolley in the set I was in.

I've made the one purchase, so beat bobm with a 33.3% purchase to trolley appearance ratio.

[grahame]

And whilst it proves nothing I've travelled 3 times on a double set IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) and each time there was a trolley in the set I was in.

I've made the one purchase, so beat bobm with a 33.3% purchase to trolley appearance ratio.

I will admit I’ve only travelled on an IET a couple of dozen times but I cannot remember an occasion when a trolley didn’t come through. 

More interesting is I’ve only bought something on around 25% of times.

Done a fair number of journeys - but mostly quite short so not always seen the trolley.   Did see it on one occasion coem through first, take one look, decide it couldn't get through and turn back.   Mind you, that was a service with just 5 cars available ...

[bobm]

Yes I’d forgotten that.  I was with you!

[1st fan]

It's sad to see that despite promises to the contrary by Mr Rule

There are plenty of more sophisticated trolleys on the market that keep things hot, and keep things cool, and even serve a proper cup of coffee. A quick google will give you some idea.

The trolleys are not more sophisticated and the choice (especially in coffee terms) has been decreased. It will be interesting to see how hot food is done in standard and if they use the same trolleys for that.

[IndustryInsider]

I’ll see if I can find out anything more about the hot food situation.  It was certainly very much on the agenda last I heard, but waiting for enough of the new trains to be in operation to make it worthwhile starting.

[broadgage]

Ben Rule last night at the ACORP^▸ (Association of Community Rail Partnerships) Awards....every IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) *will* have a trolley (or two on a 10car & I think, 9cars) in Standard! The parking bays for these are unaffected by whether the train is a Pullman. There will also be a 1st class trolley (again, two on a 10car) but when I asked whether that includes Pullmans, he wasn't sure about 5car IETs or whether a member of the Pullman crew would serve the non-diners in the same 1st class area. There would be in the second 1st class section on 10car IETs. They will be higher spec trolleys as discussed previously.

Hopefully, this is now settled

Yes it seems settled now.
Only one trolley on a 9 car, if that.
Often one trolley on a 5+5, if that.
Trolley often static or hidden in first class, if provided at all.
Higher spec trolleys sunk without trace.
Hot food in cattle class also sunk without trace.

[broadgage]

I’ll see if I can find out anything more about the hot food situation.  It was certainly very much on the agenda last I heard, but waiting for enough of the new trains to be in operation to make it worthwhile starting.

And what has happened now that virtually all the new trains are in use ?
Nothing ! apart from a possible small scale trial.

[plymothian]

Remember, the will of the people voted for this.

[IndustryInsider]

I’ll see if I can find out anything more about the hot food situation.  It was certainly very much on the agenda last I heard, but waiting for enough of the new trains to be in operation to make it worthwhile starting.

And what has happened now that virtually all the new trains are in use ?
Nothing ! apart from a possible small scale trial.

As I think I said a month or two ago, possibly on another thread?  There was a small scale trial.  It suggested that there would be losses of around £40k per financial period if it was expanded throughout the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) fleet.  I then supported your original argument that any such trial was probably designed to prove that the bare minimum offering was the best way forward from the outset.