Taking a look at the Rail Delivery Group statement and longer term strategy

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Network Rail are currently in the process of shortening the old International platforms at both ends, to make more space for milling about (by passengers) and swapping tracks (by trains). I'm not sure how short they'll be - maybe 12 cars, maybe a bit more?  Which kind of answers that question - Waterloo is, after all, the terminal for SWT^▸ (South West Trains)/SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) services.

I came across a picture showing them doing just that a few days ago, but I can't refind it just now.

I very nearly posted "someone had better protect those long platforms at Waterloo, before network rail shorten them so as to limit future capacity" But I felt that such a remark might be unduly cynical or negative, even by my standards !

Looks to me like a very bad decision to actively shorten platforms at a time of considerable overcrowding.
Is this a new policy "12 car maximum ever, and be glad you are getting that much"

[John R]

When you look at the cost of extending platforms along a route, then I can see why the view might be that 12 is the likely maximum for the foreseeable future.  Though stuving was only speculating as to their reduced length, so at this stage we don't know for sure what they will be.

[grahame]

How many IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) vehicles could fit into the former Eurostar platforms at Waterloo ? Would 9+9 fit ?

Class 373 is / was 387 metres long.  9 IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) + 5 IEP is 364 metres; 9+9 would be 468 metres.

Gloucester is 602 metres if you're looking for a destination for your super long trains. There are also a couple of rather long platforms at Bristol Temple Meads, one at Colchester and one at Cambridge.

[paul7575]

The thing with Waterloo is that they want to run most of the Windsor side service group out of the Waterloo International platforms.  By doing that they free up existing central platforms for main line side services. 

To run about 18 tph into that side requires a completely different layout in the immediate approaches to cater for the sort of frequencies required.  P20-24 saw about as many Eurostar trains per day as they now want in the high peak, and IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) did not allow for simultaneous arrivals and departures.

So as well as shortening at the buffers by about 50m to fit adequate circulation space in, they need to shorten the other end to fit in all the new points and crossings.

I think photos suggest the crossovers will be well inside the international "shed", and with the circulation space I'd be surprised if they are much longer than about 260m now.

Found a view showing the way the crossovers have been positioned inside the shed on skyscraper city:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=137556304&postcount=147
Possibly like the photo stuving had seen somewhere?

[SandTEngineer]

Theres a photograph showing progress on the new concourse area at the bottom of the page here: http://www.kentrail.org.uk/waterloo_international_3.htm

[ChrisB]

That photo is dated July 2015?

[SandTEngineer]

No its not.  Is dated 03 October 2016.  You are looking at the photograph at the bottom of the page are you not.......

[ChrisB]

nope....but still 18 months ago.

[paul7575]

nope....but still 18 months ago.

Er, 6 months ago, it is only 2017 now...

[ChrisB]

Errrr.....yup, you're right. Just checked :-)

[paul7575]

Took ages to find again, but this page on a sub-contractor's website (Kelly Group) includes a video showing the concourse end of the Waterloo International platforms looking towards the buffers.  There seem to be fairly massive concrete stop blocks being cast where the tracks are cut back:

http://www.kellygroup.co.uk/projects/waterloo-international-terminal/s3806/

Paul

[SandTEngineer]

Thanks for finding that, Paul.  Looks like its going to be a fairly big concourse area.

[paul7575]

Thanks for finding that, Paul.  Looks like its going to be a fairly big concourse area.

Hopefully it will be fairly future proof, the various NR^» (Network Rail - home page) videos seem to show a pretty much full width barrier line to go in.  It should also remove a great many waiting passengers from that end of the main concourse, in the vicinity of the LU escalators.   I think one of the good ideas is that there will be additional stairs down to the lower level which will provide a more direct route to the Bakerloo and  Northern line concourse, (I'm assuming they'll reopen the existing mothballed LU gateline) and that will avoid the current need to exit the barriers and do a 'U-turn' back towards the LU escalators. 

I did hear that P19, the one that runs alongside but outside of the international P20 would be part of the Windsor side platform group, but retain its own oddly positioned barrier line behind the LU escalator box;  it might have been better in the long run to raise it up to the same level as P20 and open up a few gaps in the wall...

Paul