First v Standard traffic levels

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Questions.

a) What proportion of journeys are made in First Class and what proportion in standard on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)
b) What proportion of mileage is travelled in First Class and what proportion in standard on FGW

And are answers available including and excluding standard class only trains?

I would also love it if you could hazard a guess for me if there's no published answer.

I'm researching something I'm about to comment on and want a sanity check of the facts before I do!

[IndustryInsider]

I seem to remember that it used to be 2% of total journeys (all operators) many years ago.  I would expect that to have risen slightly as advance fares have become much more affordable, but probably to no more than about 4%?

[JayMac]

I've not found TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) specific figures or any more recent than 2012, but ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies see - here) said that just over 11 million 1st Class journeys were made across the whole network in 2012.

http://www.atoc.org/media-centre/previous-press-releases/2013/03/04/demand-for-first-class-rail-travel-hits-10-year-high-100807/

Set that against the 1.5 billion passenger journeys in 2012/13.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/rail-statistics
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/261062/rai0101.xls

In percentage terms that's 0.73%.

Now there's obviously fluctuations in that percentage across operators. Chiltern and Northern's 1st Class journey percentage will be 0%. Arriva Trains Wales, with only two trains a day conveying 1st Class accommodation will be statistically insignificant. Virgin and East Coast operate all their services with 1st Class accommodation and all services are true long distance Inter-City, so their percentage is probably higher.

First Great Western run a mix of Inter-City and Commuter services with 1st Class, and Inter-Urban and Regional/Local services without. That may mean they are close to the national percentage of 0.73%

You could ask FGW^▸ (First Great Western) or ATOC for their operator specific LENNON^▸ (Latest Earnings Nationally Networked Over-Night (allocation of daily fares)) figures, but they may cite commercial confidentiality and refuse. Even then, getting a true figure would be difficult. If, for example, a passengers buys an 'Any Permitted' 1st Class ticket between Plymouth and Taunton there's no way to know whether they've used FGW or CrossCountry.

[grahame]

Thanks - those are very much the order of magnitude I would have anticipated ... and I'm guessing there's no especial reason to expect that the percentages using First Class will increase dramatically in the next few years? I would almost expect it to go the other way with HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) changes that have been discussed here, but what about IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.)?

[IndustryInsider]

Less than I thought then, and you can see why some operators have ditched it altogether.  I wonder if those figures including upgrades such as Weekend First though?  That might be enough to bolster the percentage up to 1% 

[LiskeardRich]

Less than I thought then, and you can see why some operators have ditched it altogether.  I wonder if those figures including upgrades such as Weekend First though?  That might be enough to bolster the percentage up to 1% 

Especially when we add all the complimentary first class tickets FGW^▸ (First Great Western) dish out I expect a scrape to 1%. I've noticed a lot of complimentary anytime tickets being dished out on their Facebook as prizes for competitions.

[IndustryInsider]

I'd be interested to know what the figure for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) services is.  Given that, even after the current standard class increase/first class decrease reduction programme is completed, around a fifth of the passenger carrying length of the train will still be first class accommodation.

[thetrout]

I'd be interested to know what the figure for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) services is.

That's an interesting point and it varies significantly.

Some trains I use it is now next to impossible to ascertain a First Class seat. Yet you'll find some in Standard Class. Incidentally the train staff and drivers passing back are often kitted up in Coach K and I've never really had the danglies to ask them if I could sit down.

Yet other trains I am the only passenger in the entire First Class section i.e. 1 Passenger gets 1.5 Coaches... If I can be called a passenger and not a pain in the butt

Other trains I've used previously you'll start with First empty, mid journey it's full and ending journey it's still full or lightly loaded/empty (PNZ - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) a good example)

I still think FGW should have taken Virgin's approach with Voyagers and had a First/Standard covertable carriage. If we look at the post John R made earlier where FGW had to bodge a portion/all of a Standard Class Carriage to First Class... Why was this approach not considered or taken?

There is also merit on how FGW could revise a declassification policy. In the past I've suggested to Train Managers when trains have been ridiculously busy with people standing, to let me have Coach F (now K) and declassify the other 2. When there are 50+ people standing. It seems rather unfair for 1 person to have just over 30% of the entire train to themselves. (In truth that has only happened a few times and it was nearly always the same train). In all cases it's been a welcome invitation to the TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) and made his job alot easier.

I'm sorry, but the purchase of a First Class ticket does not give the holder the right to be selfish and make that amount of people stand. IMO^▸ ('in my opinion') it's just plain rude.

[Oxonhutch]

From personal experience in the peaks DID^▸ (Didcot Parkway)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) and PAD-DID the loading in a 1.5x1st class configuration is about 50% +/- 20%.  With the remaining 2x1st it is more dispersed and with the odd 1x1st significantly more packed.  Over the past four years I have noted that there appears to be a fair percentage of rail industry employee passes used on these services - are these counted in the national statistics? I have failed to get a seat only three times in the same period.

[JayMac]

Any rail industry employee travelling on a pass should give up their seat to a fare paying passenger if no other seats are available. The same applies to entitled family members travelling on a pass.

Specifically on FGW^▸ (First Great Western):

i) Active staff holders of National Rail First Class travel facilities must give priority to fare-paying First Class customers.

ii) Active staff holders of National Rail Standard travel facilities are requested to vacate their seats if fare-paying customers
are standing.

iii) In respect of journeys terminating at Paddington on services which arrive between 07.15 and 09.00 and journeys
departing from Paddington between 16.30 and 19.15, holders of all staff travel facilities should only use accommodation
where spare seats are available. Whenever required by fare paying passengers, including those joining en-route, seats should be vacated immediately.

So, if that 1st Class section has no seats available and you see a member of staff in one, then you are perfectly entitled to ask them (nicely of course!) to vacate.

[4064ReadingAbbey]

Not directly connected with fGW, but there is an interesting data point on page 30 of the current RAIL magazine (issue 759). In an article about the Kings Cross - Inverness Highland Chieftain service, it states:

EC says the Highland Chieftain service is particularly popular with business travellers - on average 59% of First Class seats are occupied on the 'Chieftain' north of Edinburgh, compared to 39% in First Class across East Coast as a whole.

I'm not clear how the seat occupancy is measured or how it maps to passenger journeys, but clearly there is a considerable demand for First Class travel on 'InterCity' style services if the service meets expectations.

[John R]

I suspect that there is a disproportionate % of foreign tourists on that service, who are on an all line ticket. So how much revenue East Coast actually see is debatable. Whether they should be classed as business travellers is debatable.

[Timmer]

Because the 40 year old HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) provides a better standard of accommodation than the more modern class 170 DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) and fares are cheaper too if booked in advance. Many travel on the 'up' Chieftain to Edinburgh in the morning, returning on the late afternoon service.

That will probably change when the Highland Chieftain becomes an underfloor engined IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) and the 170s are replaced by HSTs! I know which trains I will be travelling on when travelling between Glasgow/Edinburgh - Aberdeen/Inverness after 2017.