Friday 27th December 2013 in the Thames Valley

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

I got to Taplow for the 0750 to Reading yesterday - checked NR^» (Network Rail - home page) website at 0730, all on time.....get to station.....all on time....then all of a sudden it just falls off the screen, no announcement, nothing....after about 10 mins another chap tried the Help point (the ticket office was unstaffed and the waiting room locked, which had not been announced in advance either).....no-one answered the Help point.......after 20 minutes (now about 0810), people started drifting off to get cabs.....then about 0815 the 0750 reappeared on the info screen, showing 25 mins late

Dealing specifically with that train, it was booked to start at Slough I believe, so the normal automatic updates would have only worked when it departed Slough (which would explain why it reappeared on the screens at a point when it was on its way).  The system isn't intelligent enough to work out that a late incoming train will mean a late outgoing train - it never will be able to accurately predict that sort of thing as there are so many variables, unless it's the end of a branch line and it has to be that train that forms the next working, and there is definitely not going to be any delay due to a crew break.  So, it relies on some kind of manual input from staff that are already totally overloaded and simply can't keep up.

That doesn't explain why it disappeared from the screens in the first place of course, but I think we can all agree that the recently installed systems are far, far, far, better than the old system despite the odd hiccup.  I'd encourage everyone, who doesn't already, to use the detailed view on the 'realtime trains' website or app which, whilst it wouldn't have told you how late the train was, would have told you it was on it's way when it left Slough at 08:04, so those who drifted off to get cabs would perhaps have changed their minds based on that information.

[TaplowGreen]

I got to Taplow for the 0750 to Reading yesterday - checked NR^» (Network Rail - home page) website at 0730, all on time.....get to station.....all on time....then all of a sudden it just falls off the screen, no announcement, nothing....after about 10 mins another chap tried the Help point (the ticket office was unstaffed and the waiting room locked, which had not been announced in advance either).....no-one answered the Help point.......after 20 minutes (now about 0810), people started drifting off to get cabs.....then about 0815 the 0750 reappeared on the info screen, showing 25 mins late

Dealing specifically with that train, it was booked to start at Slough I believe, so the normal automatic updates would have only worked when it departed Slough (which would explain why it reappeared on the screens at a point when it was on its way).  The system isn't intelligent enough to work out that a late incoming train will mean a late outgoing train - it never will be able to accurately predict that sort of thing as there are so many variables, unless it's the end of a branch line and it has to be that train that forms the next working, and there is definitely not going to be any delay due to a crew break.  So, it relies on some kind of manual input from staff that are already totally overloaded and simply can't keep up.

That doesn't explain why it disappeared from the screens in the first place of course, but I think we can all agree that the recently installed systems are far, far, far, better than the old system despite the odd hiccup.  I'd encourage everyone, who doesn't already, to use the detailed view on the 'realtime trains' website or app which, whilst it wouldn't have told you how late the train was, would have told you it was on it's way when it left Slough at 08:04, so those who drifted off to get cabs would perhaps have changed their minds based on that information.

Interesting background information but surely the onus is on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to keep their customers informed once they are at the station, rather than making it the customer's responsibility? Surely making an announcement over the tannoy and/or ensuring that Help points are answered, ticket offices are manned isn't too much to ask? Not everyone has access to online information when they are on the move......and notwithstanding thisI stress again that at the point I left my house (0730), everything was showing "on time" on the website you mention.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

A common problem seems to me to be that the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) information is computer generated rather than human. At times of immense disruption I do not think there are enough human resources available to overide the computers.
There is a quirk in the CIS at Hanborough for information on Down trains from Oxford. The screen will advise you of the time that a train arrives at Oxford and then progress to advising you that the train is, some minutes later, between Oxford and Hanborough. However as soon as that train crosses Wolvercot junction, the information changes and then tells you that the train is still at Oxford. I understand that the screen is fed with information from two different information systems and that to correct this a quite costly program rewrite would be necessary and so cannot be justified. We therefore just have to live with inaccurate information. Regular rail users at Hanborough now know this quirk exists but strangers must find it very puzzling.

[IndustryInsider]

Interesting background information but surely the onus is on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to keep their customers informed once they are at the station, rather than making it the customer's responsibility? Surely making an announcement over the tannoy and/or ensuring that Help points are answered, ticket offices are manned isn't too much to ask? Not everyone has access to online information when they are on the move......and notwithstanding thisI stress again that at the point I left my house (0730), everything was showing "on time" on the website you mention.

Indeed it should be, but for those customers who have access to data on their phones - the majority of passengers I'd have thought - they can help themselves by doing what I suggest if the official channels for information are playing up.  In the example of Taplow you are lucky enough to be at a location where you can follow your train as it reports at numerous locations on it's journey (some 30 locations between Paddington and Reading), so if and when there is a problem with the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) and the help phones (which of course would also be swamped during serious disruption), you can help yourself.  Sadly, for Hanborough the situation is very different due to the signalling!

I take your point entirely about the 07:30 set off being not mentioned on the site, but point you to your comment about people seeking out taxis at 08:10 when the information was available via that website to inform people that the train was on its way (and it duly arrived a few minutes later).  Up to you whether you want to make use of it - but I know I would!

[TaplowGreen]

Interesting background information but surely the onus is on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to keep their customers informed once they are at the station, rather than making it the customer's responsibility? Surely making an announcement over the tannoy and/or ensuring that Help points are answered, ticket offices are manned isn't too much to ask? Not everyone has access to online information when they are on the move......and notwithstanding thisI stress again that at the point I left my house (0730), everything was showing "on time" on the website you mention.

Indeed it should be, but for those customers who have access to data on their phones - the majority of passengers I'd have thought - they can help themselves by doing what I suggest if the official channels for information are playing up.  In the example of Taplow you are lucky enough to be at a location where you can follow your train as it reports at numerous locations on it's journey (some 30 locations between Paddington and Reading), so if and when there is a problem with the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) and the help phones (which of course would also be swamped during serious disruption), you can help yourself.  Sadly, for Hanborough the situation is very different due to the signalling!

I take your point entirely about the 07:30 set off being not mentioned on the site, but point you to your comment about people seeking out taxis at 08:10 when the information was available via that website to inform people that the train was on its way (and it duly arrived a few minutes later).  Up to you whether you want to make use of it - but I know I would!

OK - my last words on the subject as any response from anyone connected with the railway is inevitably going to be qualified with "well the pesky customers could have sorted out the problem themselves"- it is clearly wholly the responsibility of FGW to keep their passengers informed and this should be their first priority when there is a problem. It is NOT down to customers whom you mostly simply assume have access to the internet on the go to keep checking, at their own expense, when or indeed whether the service they have already paid for in good faith and on the information provided is going to arrive.

Yes I would and do check websites if FGW are incapable of providing basic information themselves, but don't work on an assumption that most/everyone can, or indeed should have to.

I repeat that this was a station with inaccurate information boards, a help point that was not being answered, and a ticket office which was unmanned & closed without any advance notice. That is most decidedly not customer service of any acceptable level, and if I had been one of those customers who went to get a taxi in the absence of any information I would feel fully justified in seeking a refund.

Anyway, Amen and Happy New Year!

[stuving]

A common problem seems to me to be that the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) information is computer generated rather than human. At times of immense disruption I do not think there are enough human resources available to overide the computers.

Then again, there are some things a computer can do on its own. There really isn't much of an excuse for this display - a couple of lines of software ought to pick it up. It changed to CORRECTION and showed the next train as 15:10 just as that train came into view, on time.

[The clock is right. The 14:44 may or may not have run, as RealTimeTrains shows no real times at all for it.]

[IndustryInsider]

OK - my last words on the subject as any response from anyone connected with the railway is inevitably going to be qualified with "well the pesky customers could have sorted out the problem themselves"- it is clearly wholly the responsibility of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to keep their passengers informed and this should be their first priority when there is a problem. It is NOT down to customers whom you mostly simply assume have access to the internet on the go to keep checking, at their own expense, when or indeed whether the service they have already paid for in good faith and on the information provided is going to arrive.

Yes I would and do check websites if FGW are incapable of providing basic information themselves, but don't work on an assumption that most/everyone can, or indeed should have to.

I repeat that this was a station with inaccurate information boards, a help point that was not being answered, and a ticket office which was unmanned & closed without any advance notice. That is most decidedly not customer service of any acceptable level, and if I had been one of those customers who went to get a taxi in the absence of any information I would feel fully justified in seeking a refund.

And my last words on the subject (as a railway employee, who, if you read my posts, is certainly not afraid to criticise the industry) is to stress that my attitude is certainly not "well the pesky customers could have sorted out the problem themselves", as during other posts in this topics I have described the service offered that morning as a mess, a repeat of the fiasco on the same day last year and agreed with you that the onus is on FGW to provide the information.  It is a poor show that the information screens weren't accurate and the help phone wasn't answered.

However, yes I would assume that the majority of those commuting from Taplow station (or at least one in a group who could then pass the information on to others) would have a data allowance and mobile phone that would have allowed them to find out, and those that wandered off to get a taxi (presumably from the handy facility on the station?) could have potentially used www.realtimetrains.co.uk and saved themselves the bother, expense and probable additional delay not waiting for a train that turned up a couple of minutes later - after all, it is a website designed to help passengers and uses information fed from the industry.  The more passengers who know about it the better in my view and I certainly won't miss a chance to advertise it on occasions where it could clearly have been very useful.

[lordgoata]

I was travelling to Slough on 27th, caught the 07:46 at Goring, it was on time, no warnings of any delays or problems. We chugged along to Maidenhead, all on time and running nicely, then sat there for ages. Driver announced overrunning engineering works past Slough. Eventually moved off and arrived at Taplow, where we stopped for what seemed like forever.

Eventually moved off again and the driver made an announcement I could hardly hear (PA^▸ (Public Address) was a bit crap, plus train was accelerating at the time). Worrying that we were running direct to Paddington due to the delays (I heard him mention Slough, but not the exact details), I decided to jump off at Burnham if we stopped, which we did. So I knocked on the cab window, and had a brief chat with the driver when he'd finished speaking to control. He apologised a number of times for the delays, and asked me to stand in First Class while he made the announcement, and then knock on the cab door to let him know if it was clearer or not, which I did (he was talking a lot louder and the train wasn't moving this time).

We eventually arrived at Slough about 09:15 I think it was.