Petition - "WE JUST LOVE THE ENGLAND BUS PASS"

[whole diary]

[John R]

That would be the point. If they don't pay tax they would get it. If they do, then above a pre-determined point they wouldn't. Though that wouldn't allow for the possibility that they have two smaller incomes, or that they live with family, or in a care home, etc, etc.

[GBM]

First Kernow have recently increased their fares again citing the need to cover their costs as the council don't subsidise the bus passes sufficiently so they need to recoup the costs from the passenger
First recently ceased the X18 Pz - Truro (& return) semi fast service, bypassing Camborne & Redruth  Used to run 5 times a day, then reduced to three, then cut.
Local objections forced them to put on an early morning Pz - Truro, and a tea time Truro - Pz run only.
Previous X18's were mostly used by concession cards and students, very little cash taken in fares, if at all; frequently very full on all runs.
As stated earlier, a concession full bus is a loss leader for the operator - hence the pulling of the X18.

[onthecushions]

Reading Buses (quoted on the Council Tax leaflet) gave a figure of 27% as the concessionary loading.

The bus network covers about half its costs from the farebox. A quarter comes from subsidy and a quarter from the concessionary system. Remove it and the bus network is destablised. Overall, the OAP bus pass subsidy helps maintain the network for the younger population which needs the higher cost morning peak services. OAP's only travel free after the peak. There are some rough edges to the system, both for paying passengers and for operators but overall the bus pass has great benefits. Even for wealthy pensioners, it reduces car use and gets them spending in the high street not on the tax-dodging internet.

I can't see as much benefit from the heating allowance, however.

OTC

[trainer]

As stated earlier, a concession full bus is a loss leader for the operator - hence the pulling of the X18.

To be a bit pedantic, but completely accurate, a 'loss leader' is a product a company is prepared to lose money on in order to lead customers to more profitable products and thus increase profits (eg cheap bread/milk brings in the punters who they hope will buy other groceries).  A bus route that never will make money is a complete loss to profits.

[grahame]

To be a bit pedantic, but completely accurate, a 'loss leader' is a product a company is prepared to lose money on in order to lead customers to more profitable products and thus increase profits (eg cheap bread/milk brings in the punters who they hope will buy other groceries).  A bus route that never will make money is a complete loss to profits.

Ah - now I have come across sections of a route which don't make money, but which continue to run because they bring in a handful of people who stay on the bus and are joined by others which makes the bus route profitable as a whole.  The classic is/was the route from Bath Bigcity to Easterton Tinyvillage via Melksham Biggertown, Devizes Bigtown Potterne Village West Lavington Village and Market Lavington Village.

The metric here are that you will never pay your way from Easterton to Market Lavington, but that helps fill the bus the rest of the way, and no matter how far you trip that route back towards Bath you're going to damage your income for the inner sections.   The recent history of the route is a complex one, with First running the service in the days I actually lived in Easterton; they cut it back all the way to Melksham and FareSaver took over the longer route by extending their Bath to Melksham bus, initially with a change and a smaller vehicle onwards from Devizes - commercially run but perhaps a loss leader in order to get a good load of transfers.  People don't like changing, though, and the outer section is now a through / larger vehicle ... which I doubt is ever going to make a profit on the very final section to Easterton ...

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

The trouble with the concessionary bus pass scheme is that it generates a lot emotional chatter, some of which is right but much is rubbish.
I am a pensioner and have a bus pass. Unfortunately my use has declined through deteriorating health and I find it difficult to walk the 1/3 mile to the nearest bus stop. I do not think much of completely free services to the user as the service (especially free car parking in West Oxon that is paid for by non car owners in there council tax) is sometimes not valued as much and would be happy to pay something towards a bus journey, (say 20 pence or 50 pence?). However no one has mentioned that despite the financial crisis, state spending in child support is increasing. The free school meals for all 5 to 7 year olds is an example. If the country can afford that, it can afford care for the elderly including support for bus travel. There has been talk about taxing the bus pass but I cannot see how this could be done. It would be much easier to simply tax the annual ^200 winter fuel allowance (^100 for each of couples). Local authorities are continuing to cut back on care services for the elderly whiclst spending more on children.
Turning back to the cost of buses, one contributor here points out correctly that direct bus service subsidies and contributions from local authorities for bus passes form a large proportion of bus service revenues and without them in many cases service would be unviable for the small proportion of fare paying customers. Here in West Oxon the County Council has finished a review of subsidised service contracts and our local bus services for Hanborough are changing from being subsidised to commercially operated by Stagecoach. How is this so? It is the ever increasing number of concessionary bus pass users. A percentage of basic fare reimbursement for each pass user produces more revenue to Stagecoach than 100% of fare paying income from just a few elderly fare paying bus users. What it has meant to the operator is that direct subsidy has gone down and been replaced by much higher cash concessionary bus pass use income. However a charge per concessionary bus pass use would cut overall use and possibly the operator could find itself with lower overall revenue with its local authority income falling by more than its income from pass holder charges thus endangering service provision. Conversely it could cut local authority costs and enable the support for children services to be increased! It all gets even more complicated in practice as I can recall from my days as a planning and transportation local authority accountant.

It should also be remembered that Stagecoach a year or so ago crowed that its proficts had not protected from the worst effects of the recession by the increasing concessionary bus pass income as well as guaranteed income on it London operations.