Bath Bus Station Farce 01/12/12 (A big rant and contains minor expletives)

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

I went to the meeting on Public Transport in Westbury on Saturday. I decided to trek back home via Chippenham to give the Melksham Branch a bash. (To which the Guard seemed somewhat surprised when I explained I was changing trains at Chippenham and had boarded the 15:06 Swindon service intentionally)

Anyway I decided on the 267 FirstGroup Bus Service back to Frome. Big Mistake.

I was due to board the 17:15 which for people who know the bus station, leaves from Bay 8 and has done for quite some considerable time. There was already a large queue forming and I arrived at 17:11 so was running slightly late but not late enough to risk missing it... Or so I thought. Turns out the bus was standing at a different bay and actually left without me and about 8 other passengers. Some had arrived much earlier than me, others slightly after. I saw it drive past the outside of the bus station at 17:22 rather full. But the 8 of us could have *possibly* got on.

I decided after spotting this to find the Inspector and make a formal complaint. After asking at least 3 members of staff all of which gave the response of "I'm not based here so I have no idea who's who" - which seemed to be the truth as 2 of the staff members had a Welsh accent and seemed to be done a FirstGroup Coach Charter from Wales to Bath I assume of the Christmas Market.

2 other members of staff I also asked seemed to take great pleasure in finding the whole escapade of situation both myself and the 8 passengers were now in incredibly funny and started mocking us. They refused to give us their names saying they were just cleaners (Blatent lie, I remember one of them driving the 267 a couple of months back; yes my memory is that good) and very quickly stopped smiling when I put my iPhone into camera mode. Except the bloody thing decided (rather fortuitously for them) to reboot at the exact moment I opened the camera app.

I was now at this point absolutely fuming. (understatement). Eventually I managed to collar the Gentlemen based in the ticket office on his way home who got the Inspector for me, only some 40 minutes later! I was told he was very busy. (But he seemed to have plenty of time earlier to watch the Steam Charter Service to Paddington pull into Bath Spa )

I tried diplomatically to obtain a resolution to the problem but the inspector couldn't understand why I had not boarded the service even though it was there. I don't think he grasped (or wanted to) the fact that it was ON THE WRONG BAY and that NOBODY TOLD US in addition to that the CIS^▸ (Customer Information System) was showing it departing from BAY 8!!!

However another passenger known for causing trouble by making fictitious complaints took control and every time I attempted to start a sentenceI was rudely interrupted with "Let me finish" which actually made me even more angry than the initial incident to begin with to be honest. I was trying to "Politely, calmly and diplomatically resolve the issue and she was more interested in shouting and having a rant" Eventually she went away and I attempted once again to have a quiet word with the Inspector before once again being sneaked up upon from behind and interrupted again. At this point thetrout declares that he lost his temper and was about to have a right moan at the passenger but the inspector noticed this and took her away to discuss the issue with her and the other passengers. Leaving me with the senior inspector who I have spoken to before and know is extremely good.

He did apologise on behalf of the operator for the problems encountered and explained that not all is well since the new timetables were changed. I would post the exact information he gave as it was "Off the Record" and I don't wish to compromise his position.

He advised me to contact the Managing Director of the Company for which I have already written a letter and will be sending registered post.

Mainly because in the end I ended up on the 19:15 some TWO HOURS later. The 18:15 was full and standing and I to be honest didn't wish to subject myself to a ride on the same over capacity bus with the passenger who I know from someone else on the same bus was ranting all the way back to Frome.

Likelihood of any compensation for a 2 hour delay which I deem to be within the Operators control. Considering I use a concessionary pass: Nil

Compensation Required for the inconvenience: An assurance that such a problem WILL NOT happen again and that alternative transport be provided at the expense of the operator even if a small cost is leived!

Rant Over!

[chuffed]

More power to your mighty pen ! You really do seem to be entirely justified in demanding answers to the questions you raise. Somehoe I don't think you would have met such an unhelpful attitude from Stagecoach. Your experience with First is sadly not that unusual, in that it seems to be typical of their  customer service. It seems that sometimes, they go out of their way to be unhelpful.

[grahame]

Under First's bus customer promise (I have a pile of forms) free travel is offered if ...

"we fail to operate an advertised service for reasons within our control" and it strikes me that leaving from a different stop and not providing adequate information, resulting in people being left behind, falls into the "failing to operate" category.

Of course, for concessionary travellers such as pensioners who are paid for by the county council, this doesn't really do very much, and I doubt that many will fill in a travel claim form on behalf of the council ...

It seems that sometimes, they go out of their way to be unhelpful.

In the last couple of months, I have seen some promising shoots of First (in Bath, Bus) taking more note of customers via the new customer panel.  Early days, and that looks at systemic stuff rather than individual cases.   However, it does mean there's a chance to enquire as to how buses are reallocated to different bays and how customers are kept informed.  Also to ask what "delay /repay" really offers to pensioners.   We may, though, have to accept "nothing" as the answer

[swrural]

I had to work out that the 267 goes from Bath (am not a local) so I hope this reply helps others.  You decided AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), to go from Melksham to Chippenham and then 'back' to Bath and then 267 bus home to Frome.

I did wonder at what time the 'competition' ends, that being the park and ride at Odd Down.  It has just occurred to me that these p and r services finish quite early (thus really only for shoppers and office workers).  So I looked it up and they go to 2030 and quite a lot of days before Xmas, up to 2130.  Not good enough for a night out in Bath where I note your 267 provides a 2315 service.

 As a footnote, I see that neither service expects people in Frome to go to Bath for a Sunday evening show or event as they both pack up around 1800!  Also, as another footnote, car users from the 267 route may find it psychologically difficult to 'go back on themselves' so to speak, to access the Odd Down park and ride which is back down the Radstock road a kilometre from the Red Lion roundabout.

Except of course there is rail! (I mean to Frome, as opposed to the places in between).  I presume you took the bus because you live at or near one of those 'in between' places.  Otherwise there were services at 7 minutes past the hour available.  I wondered if you could not have caught one of those and then caught the 267 back again when you reached Frome?

Your First Bus experiences are equalled (is that the right word?) elsewhere.  I live in the 'gap' between Dorchester and Axminster.  I'll post on a separate thread about this, but what First does not seem to understand is the word 'integration'.  That it is often the same holding company for both rail and bus in many areas seems to have little effect on its separate operations.

I will be interested in the MD reply.  I met him a while back, complained about the online bus timetables that pretend that Somerset, Dorset and Devon are separate islands, between which pax do not wish to travel.  He said (erroneously) that this was being fixed.  I suppose having services with the same number in different counties has utterly defeated any attempt at such a facility.

[trainer]

The so-called Customer Information Service for First buses is actually no such thing.  Unlike London, the displays show what should happen according to the timetable, not what is actually happening in the real world.  I can look up a timetable on line and merely have the same info repeated at the bus stop (should I be living near one of the expensive new ones) or one of the bus stations.  In the past I have persuaded visiting family to use the bus with me and found at Bristol bus station the adverstised bus did not appear and no-one in the office could tell me what had happened.  We had to wait over an hour for a slower service.  I can't imagine my family went back to the West Midlands impressed with their experience.  I think it is the lack of communication, which the railways have addressed much more successfully, that frustrates users.

As for integration...don't get me started.

[eightf48544]

You can't have intergration it's not free market.

Bus competes with bus, coach and train, train competes with train, bus and coach, coach competes with coach, bus and train.

Car competes with nothing.

Besides UKIP wouldn't like integration it's a European idea.

[Tim]

First Bus in Bath needs to up its game.  They have slipped back over the last couple of years. 

Spend all that money on a new Bus Station, but don't provide enough information to passengers.

Spend all the money on real-time bus-stop information, but don't maintain half of them so they stop working and don't fit working transponders to half the buses.

They are poor and getting worse.

[trainer]

You can't have intergration it's not free market...

Besides UKIP wouldn't like integration it's a European idea.

Several reasons for fighting for integration then.  The 'free market' is only free in the sense that it means that there is no overt state interference.  All markets have restraints acknowledged or not and someone always pays: someone always wins and often many more lose.  The winners set the restraints and the losers put up with them or don't get a service.  Some state intervention (IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)) is always needed.  Whether this is Europe wide or within a local area is a legitimate area for debate.

I like transport integration and abhor total state control.  It seems to me that many 'free market' economies (ie not run on Soviet-type plans) have managed a happy arrangement whereby private companies can be a part of controlled systems.  I know that neither First nor Stagecoach bus divisions want this, but the great thing is we can debate the idea.

I warned you not to get me started. 

[swrural]

This is going the wrong way (political stuff).  I would much rather discuss how the poor CISs^▸ (Customer Information System) can be improved.  As a starter, why does First not shew how its services are connecting with trains and why does it not link up with Transport Direct system to shew through journeys.  People do not travel between railway stations; they travel between house and workplace (etc).  Someone arriving at Bath and wishing to travel to Norton (as in the example provided by TheTrout) wants to see what he has to do.

I appreciate that people could use TD (if they are computer literate but the point is - many are not).  TD does not give real time info for buses and trains anyway.

[thetrout]

I had to work out that the 267 goes from Bath (am not a local) so I hope this reply helps others.  You decided AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), to go from Melksham to Chippenham and then 'back' to Bath and then 267 bus home to Frome.

Correct. I had to go to Bath anyway to collect some supplies for the mother trout which was prebooked for collection from a Tesco Store using the Tesco Direct Service. The detour round Chippenham was irrelevant really. Just felt like a bash and as the Cardiff Service was late seemed like a good idea at the time

I did wonder at what time the 'competition' ends, that being the park and ride at Odd Down.  It has just occurred to me that these p and r services finish quite early (thus really only for shoppers and office workers).  So I looked it up and they go to 2030 and quite a lot of days before Xmas, up to 2130.  Not good enough for a night out in Bath where I note your 267 provides a 2315 service.

You're right, that park and ride does finish early (Bath has a few P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) services). We do indeed have a 23:15 service. AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) you can catch numerous other buses (173, 178 and probably the 179 to name a few) which run similar very late evening services that would drop off just outside Odd Down P&R and you can walk in. I don't think you *have* to use the dedicated 41 service to Odd Down P&R especially on a Bath All Day Ticket. I wonder though if the early finish as you say is rather deliberate on a Thursday / Friday / Saturday Night in a discreet idea to prevent drink driving... But that is nothing more than speculation.

As a footnote, I see that neither service expects people in Frome to go to Bath for a Sunday evening show or event as they both pack up around 1800!  Also, as another footnote, car users from the 267 route may find it psychologically difficult to 'go back on themselves' so to speak, to access the Odd Down park and ride which is back down the Radstock road a kilometre from the Red Lion roundabout.#

I have raised this issue on the forum in the past quite some time ago. After the 18:20 departure to Frome on the 267 (Give or take 5 / 10 minutes as I haven't seen a copy of the new Sunday Timetable) you are left with as near as dammit a 3 hour gap to get to Frome which the second to last opportunity of the day; the 21:07 Bath Spa - Weymouth Service which calls at Frome at 21:49 IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly). After that it's either a ^35.00 Taxi or wait for the 6AM train (I've done both at one stage or another in my life)

Except of course there is rail! (I mean to Frome, as opposed to the places in between).  I presume you took the bus because you live at or near one of those 'in between' places.  Otherwise there were services at 7 minutes past the hour available.  I wondered if you could not have caught one of those and then caught the 267 back again when you reached Frome?

You're on the right track (No pun intended ) I actually live closer to Frome Railway Station so ordinarily a train would be the best and most preferred option. The bus does drop relatively nearby (A 10 minute walk at my slow pace). But for reasons in my first part of the post, I had to meet the mother trout to drop off the items I had collected for her and she lives closest to the bus route terminus: Sainsburys Supermarket and then a 20 minute drive from there. No buses to parent trout's house as they were withdrawn some time ago So the bus was the best option here. Otherwise it would've been a ^5.70 Rail Ticket and ^6 odd in a Taxi. Costs incurred with Bus Travel: Nil.

Your First Bus experiences are equalled (is that the right word?) elsewhere.  I live in the 'gap' between Dorchester and Axminster.  I'll post on a separate thread about this, but what First does not seem to understand is the word 'integration'.  That it is often the same holding company for both rail and bus in many areas seems to have little effect on its separate operations.

Can't say I am overly surprised by that myself sadly. A long time ago a Bus I had caught from Taunton - Yeovil was about to arrive at the Bus Station on time. But the entrance was blocked by a HGV. As the bus was in the middle of the road, the driver was unable to let me off as doing so is not only a breach of H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) but would see me right in the middle of a busy road as the driver was in a right hand slip lane. Bad idea. By the time the HGV eventually moved, the 2 buses I could've caught onward to my destination had both left practically as mine pulled up. Fuming I ended up in the end with a ^4.98 Taxi Fare instead.

Further annoyance was learning that compensation wasn't payable by First as, yep you guessed it: I was connecting onto a service operated by South West Coaches which is a different operator of which First Group would not cover my costs for missing that departure despite it was their own bus that caused the missed connection (I am aware it wasn't their fault). When asked on the assistance desk what the procedure was if First Group didn't operate a service to the desired location meaning I had to use another operator. The response was: "Well then it's hardly a place worth going to if we don't operate to the location" I further pointed out that they did by means of First Great Western but because trains generally don't work all that well on the roads that it would be impossible for me to connect onto said train from Yeovil Bus Station and had to use the only other operator - South West Coaches instead to get to my train at Yeovil Pen Mill for Bristol Temple Meads. I was promptly asked to leave......... Funny That........!

I will be interested in the MD reply.  I met him a while back, complained about the online bus timetables that pretend that Somerset, Dorset and Devon are separate islands, between which pax do not wish to travel.  He said (erroneously) that this was being fixed.  I suppose having services with the same number in different counties has utterly defeated any attempt at such a facility.

I will be too. I'm not one to jump on the band wagon of travel should be perfect because there is no such thing as perfect. But I feel in this case I am owed and apology more than anything and an assurance that I would not be stranded under such conditions again. I am of the firm belief that FG should've provided alternative transport. Even if they'd have said you'll need to contribute ^5 towards it I would've done. No. instead I end up being 2 hours late with nothing to show for it other than a parental rant the other end

[Chris from Nailsea]

Having read this whole topic, thetrout, I can only offer you my heartfelt sympathy for your obviously very bad experience. 

***

And, purely in the interests of housekeeping, I've taken the opportunity to move your topic here, from 'The Wider Picture', and I've also corrected a minor spelling error in the headings.  Hope this is alright.  CfN.