Filming of station staff

[whole diary]

[Tim]

If you want to take this matter further, your first step should be to determine whether the person was a police officer or not. 

[thetrout]

This is an interesting thread... Something I have a few pointers on myself. You may recall I posted a thread while back regarding a small argument that quickly turned nuclear and got a bit racial on so on and so forth. I did record the incident on my iPhone, but as CfN mentioned, I did make that look very discreet. I had the iPhone in my hand and had the headset in, and was holding it in such a way that it looked like I was listening to a record or something. The passengers carried on arguing blissfully unaware that their every move and voice was being recorded and it was inevitable that the Police would arrive, which they did. When the officer arrived he had a word with the bus driver and I went up to them and informed them I had recorded the incident on my phone. The officers and bus driver delighted... the arguing passengers... no so much...!

With regards to taking pictures of CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) cameras... Now that is pointless. I probably shouldn't say this, but it has been mentioned before at a station in FGW^▸ (First Great Western) land, that the plans/blueprints for public buildings are available in the public domain if you know where to look. On those plans it does show the locations of CCTV and Crime Prevention/Safety Equipment are located. Even to the extent of the fake and real cameras. So just by browsing the web for a couple of hours, I have all the information I need without even setting foot in the building. Now isn't that more of a scary thought??

Another incident I found myself in was a few years ago... and technically I *may* have been in the wrong... But as far as i'm concerned it was my equipment and I had the expertise to do so... So why not (Feel free to tell me if what I did was wrong though for future ref).

I went Ice Skating at Swindon Ice Rink (For my sins ) with my ex partner. Whilst we were skating I took a photo of her which just so happened to capture another female skater in the shot. However the picture I was presented with on the camera showed nothing more than the back of her head. Infact there was no way you could identify the person at all in said photo. Ironically enough, you wouldn't even see the back of her head if I didn't tell you it was there. Anyhow her father had seen me taking the photo and came marching up to me and demanded that I delete the photo. I showed the photo and confirmed that there was no way that his daughter could be identified from the photo. He continued with his moronic and pompous attitude and demanded that I deleted the photo. I didn't help the situation by what I said next - which was: "Ok, I'll delete it, but it's bloody pointless me doing so" he replied "and how is that so" my reply "I'm an IT Engineer, and when I get home I'll plug my camera in and do data recovery on the camera" He didn't like that answer very much and then stated such things were impossible (Queue my friends smirking loudly). But nevertheless to cool the situation down, I deleted the picture and made a point of changing the SD Cards in front of the bloke.

Nevertheless I did return home and recovered the picture using open source programs for my personal collection. I didn't expect to come home and find one afternoon that my ex had uploaded the album to Facebook!! and sure enough, two weeks or so later, it was found and queue a threatening e-mail which looked as if someone with too much time on their hands had sat down and typed out a massive essay... I received no further messages after i replied TL/DR Some of the young ones on here will know what that means... and yes it's rude... but not in a profanity or aggressive way

[Btline]

How did the person find the photo on Facebook? Did they know your name?

[thetrout]

Some moron tagged me in the photo and then one of my friends saw it and commented on it which showed up on someone else's news feed that they were friends with and they happened to be there at the time of the incident.

Unfortunately there was no denying it as the photo was time stamped 

Lesson learned... Social Media... It's evil!

It's worrying how easy social media is making communication. Sort of like the new NHS adverts for Chlyamedia that says something along the lines of have a night of passion with one person and you're having it with all their previouses. Very much like Facebook. Post something for your friends to see and if you're not careful all their friends and so on will see it to! Scary!

[BerkshireBugsy]

Ok TT I an see both sides of this. Regarding taking photos in public, I think it is so sad that we have to be so careful nowadays when taking photos to include others in our pics.  I know if I am out taking pictures of the kids with my proper camera (a dslr) I will go to extreme lengths to either make sure that people I don't know are not in the photo or the depth of field is so small anyone else who is not part of the subject matter is out of focus and not recognisable. Sadly although phone cameras offer a convenience not possible with a DSLR the depth of field option is not normally available.

As my eldest has a phone with a camera on I try to stress how important it is not to take pictures of others without their agreement.

If you go back to your post about the ice skating incident  I would like to suggest that the way it was dealt with (by both parties) is the issue here. Everything else down the line springs from these few minutes.

I have been in a similar position to you where I have been asked to show a photo that included others but thankfully the asker saw that others were not recognisable and the issue was closed there.

[thetrout]

That's true. Camera Phones are an issue and I do also try the same to make sure I don't get anyone in the shot unless it's so they're not recognisable or I have their consent.

Yes I quite agree that perhaps I "shouldn't" have done the Data Recovery on the camera. But it's my personal equipment and nothing in UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Law (AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know)) prohibits doing so on your personal equipment.

What shouldn't have happened was the photo to be uploaded to Facebook and I am well aware of that, as If it hadn't have been uploaded; he'd never found out! But I was unaware it had been until it was too late. Again my 4 letter acronym response (TL/DR - Too Long/Didn't Read) To the guys message probably could be classed as "egging on the situation" but I didn't hear anything back...

I don't have the picture anymore as I split up with my ex partner over 5 years ago and have since moved on. But as I did say earlier, if I didn't tell you that the back of someones head was in the picture, you wouldn't know they were there... So I rather suspect the guy was looking for a fight that day as I did see him giving other skaters a rough time too.

As another incident that I read about... Sorry to quote the Daily Wail... and no Btline, please don't get too overexcited! This is worrying... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035315/Father-branded-pervert--photographing-children-public-park.html

[BerkshireBugsy]

When my son had his first swimming lesson (at a local public pool) I went down to watch and there were clear signs saying that "Photography is prohibited unless specific permission is granted by the management team". I have no problem with this in this environment because obviously children are in a state of undress

So I went to get "specific permission" from the management team on the basis that I only filmed my child and was greeted with the response "why are you asking? Most people just go ahead and do it anyway!"

You cant win!

[Btline]

Good grief - why worry about getting other people out of the shot and asking permission? I never do! And I never worry about being in other peoples' photos either. I've never asked for permission myself and never will. Ditto I have never been asked for permission by someone else, and will never expect to be!

The photos are for my own personal use and may be shared with family and friends on paper or online. No-one cares if a random person is in the background. When I look at other peoples' photos, I'm not interested at the man tying his shoelace in the corner! I never ask whether they asked for permission - I'd get strange looks if I did...

Lets reduce the paranoia!

With children, it's obviously different. Nevertheless, if you take a snap at a busy tourist location and a child happens to be in the corner having an ice cream- it's not the end of the world. As for that DM story, the others need to chill out - believe it or not most fathers with children are not a paedophile.

If the photos are for something other than "personal use" - get permission.

[Temple Meads]

Good grief - why worry about getting other people out of the shot and asking permission? I never do! And I never worry about being in other peoples' photos either. I've never asked for permission myself and never will. Ditto I have never been asked for permission by someone else, and will never expect to be!

The photos are for my own personal use and may be shared with family and friends on paper or online. No-one cares if a random person is in the background. When I look at other peoples' photos, I'm not interested at the man tying his shoelace in the corner! I never ask whether they asked for permission - I'd get strange looks if I did...

Lets reduce the paranoia!

With children, it's obviously different. Nevertheless, if you take a snap at a busy tourist location and a child happens to be in the corner having an ice cream- it's not the end of the world. As for that DM story, the others need to chill out - believe it or not most fathers with children are not a paedophile.

If the photos are for something other than "personal use" - get permission.

An excellent post!

I've never asked permission, as when you're photographing trains, you don't really have time to ask every single person on the platform if they mind being in my picture!

Although I do try to avoid having people in the pictures at all, as I feel that they spoil a good phot 

Personally I have no problem with being in someones picture, or being filmed, in fact I encourage it, as I'm a bit egotistical and like to spread myself about 

[JayMac]

Sometimes you spot a photo opportunity that does deliberately include people:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10204.0

I was amused by that line up on the bench, so I took the quick snap. I didn't ask permission as that would've spoiled the candid moment and I'd've had to compose the photo by asking "just do what you were doing before I asked". The moment would've been lost.

None of the five people noticed me taking the picture, but had they done so and objected I would have deleted the image, even though, in law, I would not have been obliged to.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Although I do try to avoid having people in the pictures at all, as I feel that they spoil a good phot 

I do sympathise with that approach: in fact, I get criticism from my family that none of them appear in any of the photos I take when we're on holiday ... 

[grahame]

Flipping the coin, there are times that asking permission can bring huge benefits.

Last summer, I was part of the group sponsoring and supporting the extra TransWilts Sunday services (07:30 Westbury -> Swindon and 08:20 return, which carried on as the regular service to Weymouth). For publicity purposes, I took a lot of pictures - with lots of passengers.  And the first time with each big group, I shouted out what I was doing and that some of the picture that came out well would be used for publicity purposes. "Please let me know if you don't want me to use your picture".  Typical reaction - "yes please, I am supporting and want to be seen supporting".  I avoided photographing just one person who objected. A second person who doesn't like his picture to be published does appear in the occasional original, which I crop if I use at all.

[Chris from Nailsea]

There is a photo of me, taken by grahame (when I was in mid-flow of my 'safety briefing' ) which appears elsewhere on this forum.

No, he didn't ask me beforehand. And no, I didn't mind. After all, anyone who turns up in an orange hi-viz vest surely can't be avoiding attention. 

[The SprinterMeister]

To shed some more light on this matter, a passenger arrived with no ticket or money and details were taken to process a TIR^▸ (Travel Irregularity Report), parent then arrived with ticket and TIR was binned with no further action - parent then still persued matter and filmed member of staff even when.asked to stop also claiming he had every right as he was a police officer. 

Wouldn't that be deemed as a police officier abusing his position somewhat? I would have thought if he used that as an excuse either the company or the union should persue this with the Devon and Cornwall police?

The fact is now however with the advent of camera phones etc some members of the public will attempt to film their conversations with the staff in support of any greivance that they may have with the company. However I believe doing so and justifying this by saying you are employed as a policeman is bascially wrong, particularly as the police do not seem to have been involved in the initial incident.

[BerkshireBugsy]

To shed some more light on this matter, a passenger arrived with no ticket or money and details were taken to process a TIR^▸ (Travel Irregularity Report), parent then arrived with ticket and TIR was binned with no further action - parent then still persued matter and filmed member of staff even when.asked to stop also claiming he had every right as he was a police officer. 

Wouldn't that be deemed as a police officier abusing his position somewhat? I would have thought if he used that as an excuse either the company or the union should persue this with the Devon and Cornwall police?

The fact is now however with the advent of camera phones etc some members of the public will attempt to film their conversations with the staff in support of any greivance that they may have with the company. However I believe doing so and justifying this by saying you are employed as a policeman is bascially wrong, particularly as the police do not seem to have been involved in the initial incident.

There was an incident at Reading one morning this week where a passenger was being abusive to a BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) office (extremely in my opinion). Although, it my opinion a video record of the event would have been useful I think for me to have recorded it would have inflamed the situation and even if I was out of site I dont think I would have felt comfortable without seeking permission first. Catch 22 (and this is just my opinion)

Dave