Cardiff-Portsmouth & Worcester/Gloucester to Weymouth - Keep or Split?

[whole diary]

[The SprinterMeister]

I agree that there isn't a case for the extension of Cardiff-South West services to Swansea although the argument about subsidy is a silly one. The units should be used where it is most effective. So if there is spare units if the Great Western franchise, and overcrowding on others, such as Northern. And vice versa. The units should move to where the demand is and where the greatest benefits are, we should all be trying to get the best out of the rail network, not argue about them being our resources so exclusively for our use, as happens to often.

Which is why the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) units should be left to do what they are doing now. There is sufficient to cover the services as things stand without them being sent away to Northern or being used to move Mrs Pugh and her cat to Pembroke etc. There are no spare diesel units on FGW. Anyway Northern got some nice useable 142's back they should be gratefull for that.

The aregument about subsidy might sound silly to you but to my mind where we are entering the world of increased regional devolvement for transport provision it becomes to my mind a lot more relevant than previously. As already mentioned it was used as a lever to remove Wales and Borders / ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) services from Penzance however some of the units were chivvied out of the W&B franchise in order to maintain service levels / capacity.

If the WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) is successful in its bid to get the Valley Lines electrified (which should happen in my view) then that will free up a lot of 15x units which can be used for increasing services to / from and beyond Swansea using ATW crews and resources. The 14x can then make its way into the scrapyard in plenty of time to beats the DiPtac requirements post 2020.

[JayMac]

I also disagree that reasons of local subsidy should prevent an operator from running through trains. Trains should run where there is demand for services. If there is demand for a Swansea to South Coast service, an operator is willing to provide it, there is rolling stock and paths available, then just because one part of the route is subsidised shouldn't prevent an operator from running the extended service on a commercial basis.

That said, I don't think there is a demand or commercial imperative to extend Cardiff-South Coast services to start back from Swansea.

[The SprinterMeister]

That said, I don't think there is a demand or commercial imperative to extend Cardiff-South Coast services to start back from Swansea.

Certainly not to the extent where you'd want FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 158's moving Mrs Pugh etc from Pembroke to Cardiff on a local journey ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) should be providing while someone else stands rammed into a vestibule / toilet between Cardiff and Bath due to the abscence of the FGW 158's.

WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) told W&B / ATW that they were not in the buisness of providing local services in Cornwall hence the removal of the W&B through Manchester / Cardiff - Penzance services. The same logic unfortunately applies here I'm afraid. You have to look after your core areas first.

[chuffed]

Just picking up on the lack of services between Worcester and Gloucester. There are no direct bus links either ! I have asked both County Councils  why 2 major cities 25 miles apart do not even have a bus service. No answer. Its Stagecoach to Tewkesbury and then Astons if you're lucky. I was a student at Worcester in the 70's ...when I was allowed to sit next to the  driver in the local DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) rattling its way to Cheltnum to connect with the Paignton- Leeds corridor coach train. Things seem to be hardly any better now.

[bambam]

The point is when there is severe overcrowding, which I believe Great Western has some of the biggest problems for this. Is sending a unit to Worcester a good idea. it may be that there is latent demand for it, which I think there is. But does that outweigh strengthening an overcrowded suburban service.

And thats sticking to the 'core' funded area. Applying this across the country, you'd redesign the fleets with the transfer of the adelantes to cross country most notable.

However this would probably dis benefit rural services

[The SprinterMeister]

The point is when there is severe overcrowding, which I believe Great Western has some of the biggest problems for this. Is sending a unit to Worcester a good idea. it may be that there is latent demand for it, which I think there is. But does that outweigh strengthening an overcrowded suburban service.

Most of the overcrowding issues are on LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) 16x operated services into and out of Paddington, hence 150001/2 and the various Addled-Aunties being draughted to bolster services in that area. The 'West' services are rather less rammed overall but to be honest you wouldn't want to take capacity away from Bristol / Exeter local services to stick additional services on round Worcester. Quite simply there aren't the units do do it.