Rail firms accused over missing 'first-class' seats

[whole diary]

[brompton rail]

Perhaps more noteworthy is that some journeys that are quite feasible by First Class don't in fact have a First Class fare.

Doncaster to Manchester is available by 2 routings. One via Sheffield / Stockport which does offer First Class Fares even though TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) only First Class fares are much cheaper than Anytime tickets (on which the alternative journey is via XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) (First) and EM Trains (no First).

The second route is via Huddersfield, which includes going via Leeds. No through trains and no First Class fares. However there are generally 2 East Coast trains per hour Doncaster to Leeds and 4 TPE trains per hour Leeds to Manchester, all of which offer First Class accommodation. Wierd.

I

[Glovidge]

While my use of the word "phantom" may be incorrect and the comments in the thread are more than valid, to a layperson passenger like me who just generally wants to get from A to B in the quickest and most comfortable manner possible I find it at best disingenious that train companies are able to sell tickets on journeys that dont have dedicated first-class services.

[thetrout]

One that is noteworth is Westbury - Pewsey, which is only operated by HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s conveying 1st... Yet when I last checked there was no FC^‡(resolve) fares available on that route...!

Another one is Frome - Westbury, 3 trains a day with First Class, yet no FC Fare...

Also Plymouth - Hayle doesn't have 1st class return, you have to buy to St Erth - which is available

Yet Menheniot - Liskeard does have a FC Fare available for a journey that is even shorter than Frome - Westbury

[LiskeardRich]

Yet Menheniot - Liskeard does have a FC^‡(resolve) Fare available for a journey that is even shorter than Frome - Westbury

and how many HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) stop at menheniot? thought it was mainly 150/153s that stop there?

[super tm]

With the old ticketing system if there was no first class fare showing for a journey then you could create one by taking the standard day  or standard return price and adding 50%.  This was helpful as it meant you did not need to have fares in the system for little journeys where there might only be one train a day and the demand would not be that high for a first class fare.  It also helped to cut down the size of the paper based fares manual.

The old ticket issuing system did not have a problem with this as the memory of the machines was low so many fares prices had to be entered manually.  Of course mistakes could then be made and tickets could be issued for the incorrect price.  Management did not like this especially if the ticket was sold for a lower price.  ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) had a department that would invoice the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) invloved for the difference so the TOC would lose money.

When the ticket machines were upgraded (on train from sportis to advantix) it was decided that if a fare was not in the system then you could not issue it.  So now you have the situation that if a first class fare does not exists then you can not sell it.

What usually happens is that someone finds out about this for a particular journey - starts travelling first and offering to upgrade knowing full well there is no such ticket.  On train staff will then feedback to their managers and in the next fares round a first class fare will be created for that journey.  Quite often then the passenger will stop making the journey