Three questions

[whole diary]

[grahame]

I'm spinning this off from another thread ....

As many of the passengers will be 'leisure travellers' and not First Class business / stressed commuters they are less likely to be put out by diversions, though 'bustitution' is a pain.

I was talking with some rail folks today,  and some questions came up which this reminded me of so here goes:

1. Are regular travellers or occasional travellers more upset / likely to be put off by changes of timetables and bustitution?

2. These days, we have announcements telling people to take all there things with them when they get off the train. What difference has the provision of these announcements made to property being left on the train? Do the announcements mean that fewer lodt property staff are now needed?

3. How many fewer people fall into the gap between the train and the platform edge now that we are reminded about it all the time?

[eightf48544]

The only one I can answer is 1.

IMO^▸ (in my opinion) regular travellers are more likely to be upset by changes to timetables and bustitution. This is especialy true when their regular train/trains disappear from the timetable Melksham and Willington and the Bristol Oxfords spring to mind.

You yourself likened it to a form Social Engineering in previous posts. i.e provide a train service so someone decides to move to that town because of teh service or gets a job that they can reach by the service.

They then face turmoil because the service is withdrawn or amended so it no longer viable.

I have experienced this just commuting form Taplow to town in the latter years. For more years than I can remember there was a train at around 07:23 off Taplow arrining in Padd in time to get the 08:00 Hammersmith and City. It stopped Burnham. Slough Hayes Ealing. Then they put stops in at Langley West Drayton and Southall and it didn't arrive until well after eight and was usually later still due to the congestion on the Relief lines from Ealing.

For the last year of work I ended up catching the 06:45 or thereabouts 45 minutes earlier, not nice on a cold dark morning.
 

[Super Guard]

With regards to 3, even if it makes absolutely no difference to accident numbers, one would expect that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are less likely to be sued if it is policy to warn passengers to mind the gap & take care etc.  The announcements might make the public (and staff!) crazy after a while, but the "where there is blame, there is a claim" obsession has caused this.

[Bob_Blakey]

1. Both - regular travellers will get annoyed by timetable changes/bustitution because it disrupts their routine and it might even cause them to miss services when they assume everything is running as usual and do not bother to check for schedule updates. Occasional rail users will very likely be put off if they expect to travel by train but end up on a bus for all or part of their journey (especially if they are not informed in advance - does this ever happen?)

2. Don't know for definite, but I suspect the answer is None/No; I would guess that individuals who are prone to leaving belongings behind may have the attention span of a goldfish and are unlikely to be influenced by repetitive announcements. 

3. Again don't know for certain (do the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)/RSSB^▸ (Rail Safety and Standards Board)/TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) keep stats on this sort of thing?) but my answer is None; similar answer to above applies!

[Chris from Nailsea]

1. Are regular travellers or occasional travellers more upset / likely to be put off by changes of timetables and bustitution?

A. Yes, in my case. These days, I'm an occasional traveller, rather than a regular commuter - but I'm still fairly tee'd off when my travel plans are disrupted.  If there is any possibility / probability that the service could be disrupted, I'd rather drive.

2. These days, we have announcements telling people to take all their things with them when they get off the train. What difference has the provision of these announcements made to property being left on the train? Do the announcements mean that fewer lost property staff are now needed?

A. Very little difference, so far as I can tell.  We've had the 'sad incident of the overlooked violin', for example. And another example, of a perfectly able-bodied student, apparently overlooking the main item of his luggage 

3. How many fewer people fall into the gap between the train and the platform edge now that we are reminded about it all the time?

A. Very few people 'fall into the gap', actually: the only incident I can trace, on this forum, is just this one quite awful incident where a young lady lost part of her arm.

[JayMac]

1. Regular travellers are more likely to be aware of changes/bustitution and therefore plan accordingly. Occasional travellers with a bit of 'knowledge' (I count myself as one of these) can weigh up the options and decide what the best course of action is. It is the 'rarely travel/first timer' that are most likely put off after experiencing bustition or extended journeys - these are passengers that are often lost by the railway to other modes of transport.

2. Never left any personal stuff on a train, except meself. Falling asleep and waking up in Birmingham is not much fun when you intended to alight at Temple Meads - made worse by being too late to turn round, and having great difficulty finding a hotel in central Brum that would except cash. It's all well and good having a debit card, but it ain't much use when the account is empty! I've also managed to board a train without my bike - left it outside the ticket office at Temple Meads, and didn't remember that I'd cycled to the station until I was safely on my way to Taunton!

3. Look before you leap!

[Brucey]

1. Nowadays with most irregular travellers using online joruney planners and buying tickets in advance (whether at station, over the phone or online), I would expect they would be less affected by a diversion as it appeared on the timetable they looked at.  However, they would probably be less likely to book if there was a bustitution.

A regular is more likely to notice a diversion.  In the incident on this thread, a few (probably one or two) people got a little agitated when we went "the wrong way".  The train was full of "off-peakers" (as I like to call them), so no-one else seemed the slightest bit bothered until the guard made an announcement - then the faces turned angry and the mobile phones came out.

2. I think if you are silly enough to leave your luggage behind, an announcement won't help you.

3. This would be interesting to know.  I might make a Freedom of Information Act request on the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to see if they have any statistics.

[eightf48544]

Slightly misunderstood question 1 to mean when permanent changes to timetables or bustitution is introduced (ask the people from Barlaston who haven't had a train for several years) rather than temporary ones.

However my answer still stands it is regular travellers who are more affected, especialy if the journey time is increased. It could mean catching an earlier train in the morning and/or arrving home later.

A regular, reliable train service is why South East London became commuterville. Once the Southern electrified and provided a regular, reasonably fast and relaible train service people moved out to the suburbs.

To an extent we have seen the same thing happen on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) after the introduction of the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) Didcot. Swindon Chippenham and Bath/Bristol have become possible daily commutes. I was going to say viable but the cost must put some people off. 

[Henry]

 Difficult to answer, question 1. I suppose you could argue that the 'leisure/occasional traveller' is more likely to check their journey details in advance. More likely to panic if their well-planned journey is subject to disruption.
 Although the regular traveller, the creature of habit, is sometimes thrown out of routine when someone is standing in 'their place' on the platform, or WH Smith's has run out of Daily Telegraph's.
 With regard to luggage, was it really that long ago that all luggage/bikes had to be labelled ?
  I suppose it's OK for us 'seasoned' travellers, but I suppose it is still quite a stressful experience for some.
  So perhaps a little unfair when I hear the comment  'when people enter the railway they leave their brains at home'.

  I think it is Clapham Junction where 'Mind the gap' was also painted on the edge of one of the platforms.
  Such was the curve on some parts of the platform, an inside leg of 36'' was needed.

[willc]

Under 2, you say "These days". I may just be getting old, but announcements about taking your stuff with you have been made in one form or another as long as I've been using InterCity trains equipped with PA^▸ (Public Address) systems, which takes us well back into the 1970s.

And while it may get a bit tedious when 'mind the gap' is repeated at every stop, there are plenty of stations out there where it makes a lot of sense. Near me, Worcester Foregate Street is on a curve and has pretty low platforms, while at Shipton the platforms are also curved and a long way below floor level in the trains, in part thanks to deeper ballast under the track. It was a very big step up or down from a 180 there and many of the Worcester conductors make a specific point of the step down when announcing stops there.

[grahame]

Under 2, you say "These days". I may just be getting old, but announcements about taking your stuff with you have been made in one form or another as long as I've been using InterCity trains equipped with PA^▸ (Public Address) systems, which takes us well back into the 1970s.

Yeah - I had a midlife gap of around many years when I didn't use a train.   In my early days they trusted us to do things like know when the train was in the station to open the doors ourselves, whereas these days it's a surprise that we don't all have seatbelts and be required to remain seated at all times 

"Mind the Gap" has been announced as long as I can remember at Leicester Square (?) on the tube, and I appreciate that some others are exceptional, but I wonder how much it's needed at Reading, Didcot, Swindon, Chippenham ...

[Chris from Nailsea]

... Nailsea & Backwell ... 

[onthecushions]

1. If it's properly managed, then it's OK. Unlike the time I went to Paddington at 2345 with Mrs OTC to be told (notice) that a bus would be provided. However when or where was omitted and so several bus loads of customers spent nearly 60 minutes wandering back and forth across the concourse. Finally some DD buses appeared at the taxi rank, only the drivers indicating where they were going (after their radio link told them). We did get back to Reading c 0200 but with a very poor opinion of the absentee staff and information. This was airline, not railway standards of service.

2. I've left two items in 36 years. One I got back by waiting for the returning stock (SR^‡(resolve)), the other I recovered from LP next day (thankyou railpersons). I've also left myself on twice! with a kindly guard waking me and sending me back to Reading from Didcot Jn.

3. I have known someone slip down the gap. Why high level platforms require seemingly higher steps than continental ground level ones beats me. LUL^▸ (London Underground Ltd) platforms are often at car floor level, only curvature providing risk. If 23m (Mk3) cars had centre doors, Paddington's curved platforms would need gangplanks for access, like Southampton Docks....

OTC