Ticket machines !

[whole diary]

[inspector_blakey]

Correct, they won't do GroupSave anywhere. I assume this means that a group of 3 or 4 wanting to travel using GroupSave can legitimately board the train without a ticket since the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) say you can do this if the ticket machine does not sell you the ticket that you want. I wouldn't fancy testing that though, come up against the wrong RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) and you might find yourself on the sharp end of four penalty fares.

Can any staff advise on what the policy is for passengers wanting to travel using GroupSave from stations equipped only with ticket machines in the penalty fares area?

[eightf48544]

I believe the get out is that somewhere it says Groupsave is only available from manned ticket offices.

Which is quite a cop out. Certainly limits revenue loss when 4 travelling together from unmanned stations.

Not sure if they are available online

[devon_metro]

I believe the get out is that somewhere it says Groupsave is only available from manned ticket offices.

Which is quite a cop out. Certainly limits revenue loss when 4 travelling together from unmanned stations.

Not sure if they are available online

Groupsave is a railcard option.

[inspector_blakey]

Groupsave is a railcard option.

Can you clarify that...? I'm not sure if you mean that GroupSave has the same status as a railcard discount (and thus must be made available where appropriate) or that the S&B machines will issue GroupSave tickets but that the relevant option is hidden away under the Railcard button.

It's certainly not just available from staffed ticket offices as West conductors will cheerfully sell the tickets to customers boarding at unstaffed stations.

[Ollie]

He is referring to purchasing online, where GroupSave is in the railcard options

[Chris from Nailsea]

Correct, they won't do GroupSave anywhere. I assume this means that a group of 3 or 4 wanting to travel using GroupSave can legitimately board the train without a ticket since the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) say you can do this if the ticket machine does not sell you the ticket that you want. I wouldn't fancy testing that though, come up against the wrong RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) and you might find yourself on the sharp end of four penalty fares.

Indeed, GroupSave tickets can be bought from staff on board - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4361.msg36976#msg36976 

[inspector_blakey]

I just wouldn't be confident enough to try that with some of our "friendly" local RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) around Oxford... Although penalty fares do not currently apply in the Bristol area (despite the posters at stations) they certainly do in these parts and a minority of the Thames Valley RPIs appear to take a little too much pleasure in enforcing them. My experience of the West conductors round Bristol is that they tend to be much more easy-going. I'm still not sure if joining the train without a ticket because you couldn't buy a GroupSave from the machine is considered acceptable by the letter of the rules.

[thetrout]

Frome TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) was out of service this evening. Luckily I already had a ticket

[Chris from Nailsea]

Although penalty fares do not currently apply in the Bristol area (despite the posters at stations) ...

An interesting point, inspector_blakey.

In fact, those big laminated posters (threatening all sorts of dire consequences, from fines to transportation), appeared at Nailsea many months before the installation of any TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), or the eventual appointment of our local chap in the ticket office.

And even now, there are no penalty fares.  I'm not complaining, just pointing out that the proliferation of such posters, where there are actually no penalty fares being applied, just makes a bit of a mockery of their warning.

[inspector_blakey]

There was a penalty fare-based faux pas in the Thames Valley as well.

Originally the penalty fares zone only came out as far as West Drayton or somewhere like that, then it crept as far as Twyford and subsequently Reading (at which point I believe passengers on the "old" FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could be PFed between RDG^‡(resolve) and PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)).

Shortly after the new franchise started posters appeared informing all and sundry that the penalty fares zone would be extended to cover Didcot, Oxford, Banbury and Bedwyn. Unfortunately the requisite consultation with Passenger Focus was not carried out which led to egg on faces, the posters being removed and a three month delay.

I really don't understand what the seemingly insurmountable obstacle to implementing "FGW west" penalty fares is, especially given that they were a franchise requirement.

[moonrakerz]

The pin pad always says "transaction refused" when collecting tickets from the S&B TicketXpress machines, although in my experience they have worked every time: press the appropriate command ("collect pre-paid ticket" or some such) on the initial screen, put card in, wait for it to be read, remove card then type in the CTR. It's an indication that your card has not been charged at the point of ticket collection.

I'll try that next time. In the past (long time ago !) when I have managed to get tickets from these ******** machines, I wasn't getting "transaction refused" message.