Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable

[whole diary]

[grahame]

IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) ... it would be utterly logical for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to provide an early Westbound service via the Berks and Hants

It has often struck me as disappointing as to just how late the first service leaves - 08:18 from Paddington, but of course there's no point in running a train (especially one which might need to be an addition to the fleet) if it's going to be carrying fresh air around.  Would it be an extra train? Would it load?

As far as I can see (but Tom may be able to see something I can't) it would need to be an extra set if it went all the way to Plymouth - but it could turn round, circa 7:15 to 7:30 at Taunton and take up the path of one of the whole series of trains which currently come up from Exeter and Plymouth at that point - a few minutes apart in some cases.  Connection at Taunton into a Cross Country train that gets stopped at Bristol rather than Plymouth overnight - or is that too much like co-operation?

Would it load?   Not magnificently, I suspect, but I'm always surprised by the number of people heading West from Newbury and Westbury ... who could certainly do with an earlier service.

[eightf48544]

Would it load?   Not magnificently, I suspect, but I'm always surprised by the number of people heading West from Newbury and Westbury ... who could certainly do with an earlier service.

grahame's question Would it load is very perceptive of teh treatment of rail against air and road. When a new runway or road is proposed it's just assummed that it will be used because growth will require it.

Rail travel is growing but somehow you have to prove a train will load before it's put in the timetable. The only way of decidng if an early train to the West would load is to run preferably with cheap advanced and day fares as it's against the flow.

However the danager is that such a train is put in teh timetable and gradually custom builds up but not to full and standing so teh next economy drive and off it comes (no demand!).

It's a bit like Melksham Wessex built up a reasonable service and patronage but because it wasn't full and standing all day the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) pulled the plug in the franchise spec.

That's the problem with rail as opposed to road or airports. "use it lose it". It's easy to not run a train, but nobody talks about closing an airport or digging up a motorway because it's not heavily used.

Although it will be interesting to see if Newquay airport survies BA^» (British Airways - about)'s withdrawal (see other post). That will be a first an airport closing because of lack of traffic.

[Hafren]

When considering an early train to Plymouth, does 'competition' with the sleeper need to be considered? If there's an early train, it would probably attract some people who might have used the sleeper before (or at least be seen in that light), and people looking at it from a cost point of view might see the sleeper as serving the same market. So the new service might be seen as duplicating the sleeper, making either the new train or the sleeper look less viable in the eyes of the bean counters, regardless of any potential growth?

[devon_metro]

I think it would be of benefit to run an additional service to Penzance very early morning from Paddington ... perhaps something like this:

0503 London Paddington
0522 Slough
0540 Reading
0555 Newbury
0616 Pewsey
0635 Westbury
0652 Castle Cary
0717 Taunton
0730 Tiverton Parkway
0746 Exeter St Davids
0800 Newton Abbot
0813 Totnes
0840 Plymouth

or

0430 London Paddington
0449 Slough
0507 Reading
0522 Didcot Parkway
0541 Swindon
0555 Chippenham
0610 Bath Spa
0625 Bristol Temple Meads
0645 Weston-super-Mare
0705 Taunton
0718 Tiverton Parkway
0734 Exeter St Davids
0750 Newton Abbot
0803 Totnes
0830 Plymouth

How did you manage EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains)-NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) in 14 mins?

[John R]

When considering an early train to Plymouth, does 'competition' with the sleeper need to be considered? If there's an early train, it would probably attract some people who might have used the sleeper before (or at least be seen in that light), and people looking at it from a cost point of view might see the sleeper as serving the same market. So the new service might be seen as duplicating the sleeper, making either the new train or the sleeper look less viable in the eyes of the bean counters, regardless of any potential growth?

In the past the sleeper was a viable option as a sleeper coach was detached at Plymouth, enabling passengers to rise at an acceptable time. However, the new franchise removed that facility, so unless business travellers can find something worthwhile to do between 0547 and their meeting, I suspect they will not find the option attractive.

So in fact you've highlighted that the lack of an early train is even more of a problem now.

[Btline]

Would it load?   Not magnificently, I suspect, but I'm always surprised by the number of people heading West from Newbury and Westbury ... who could certainly do with an earlier service.

grahame's question Would it load is very perceptive of teh treatment of rail against air and road. When a new runway or road is proposed it's just assummed that it will be used because growth will require it.

Rail travel is growing but somehow you have to prove a train will load before it's put in the timetable. The only way of decidng if an early train to the West would load is to run preferably with cheap advanced and day fares as it's against the flow.

However the danager is that such a train is put in teh timetable and gradually custom builds up but not to full and standing so teh next economy drive and off it comes (no demand!).

It's a bit like Melksham Wessex built up a reasonable service and patronage but because it wasn't full and standing all day the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) pulled the plug in the franchise spec.

That's the problem with rail as opposed to road or airports. "use it lose it". It's easy to not run a train, but nobody talks about closing an airport or digging up a motorway because it's not heavily used.

Although it will be interesting to see if Newquay airport survies BA^» (British Airways - about)'s withdrawal (see other post). That will be a first an airport closing because of lack of traffic.

I agree, but roads are down graded every so often (e.g. M10 soon to be an A-road).

[woody]

The draft crosscountry timetable for December 2008 shows a new "commuter" service departing Bristol at 06.42 arriving Plymouth 08.34 a bit too early though for a connection off a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ex Paddington service I think.

[swlines]

Yes my proposal would require an extra set... however.... see these timings instead:

0500 London Paddington (slightly more realistic timings)
0518 Slough
0535 Reading
0550 Newbury
0612 Pewsey
0632 Westbury
0642 Frome
0655 Castle Cary
0715 Taunton
0729 Tivvy Parkway
0745 Exeter St Davids
0805 Newton Abbot
0818 Totnes
0845 Plymouth
(insert some stations here)
1100 Penzance

1255 Penzance
1303 St Erth
1306 Hayle
1316 Camborne
1322 Redruth
1334 Truro
1351 St Austell
1358 Par
1405 Lostwithiel
1411 Bodmin Parkway
1424 Liskeard
1435 St Germans
1442 Saltash
1454 arr Plymouth
1500 dep Plymouth
1527 Totnes
1540 Newton Abbot
1600 Exeter St Davids
1616 Tivvy Parkway
1630 Taunton
1752 Reading
1822 London Paddington

[John R]

The draft crosscountry timetable for December 2008 shows a new "commuter" service departing Bristol at 06.42 arriving Plymouth 08.34 a bit too early though for a connection off a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ex Paddington service I think.

Ah, excellent news.  That's much more appropriate.

[devon_metro]

Yes my proposal would require an extra set... however.... see these timings instead:

0500 London Paddington (slightly more realistic timings)
0518 Slough
0535 Reading
0550 Newbury
0612 Pewsey
0632 Westbury
0642 Frome
0655 Castle Cary
0715 Taunton
0729 Tivvy Parkway
0745 Exeter St Davids
0805 Newton Abbot
0818 Totnes
0845 Plymouth
(insert some stations here)
1100 Penzance

1255 Penzance
1303 St Erth
1306 Hayle
1316 Camborne
1322 Redruth
1334 Truro
1351 St Austell
1358 Par
1405 Lostwithiel
1411 Bodmin Parkway
1424 Liskeard
1435 St Germans
1442 Saltash
1454 arr Plymouth
1500 dep Plymouth
1527 Totnes
1540 Newton Abbot
1600 Exeter St Davids
1616 Tivvy Parkway
1630 Taunton
1752 Reading
1822 London Paddington

15 minutes to get into Plymouth city centre give or take 5/10 minutes delay is a bit tight for a 9am start.

[eightf48544]

I agree, but roads are down graded every so often (e.g. M10 soon to be an A-road).

Maybe so but it's still a road and open 24/7, people will still use it irrespective of it's designation. The only thing they might do is slap a 60 or 50 mph restriction on it. However, that's not likely to deter many users.

But, you can only catch a train that runs so at present unless an earlier train to the West is provided you can't get to Plymouth any earlier in the day unless you drive or go by sleeper.

[BPWuser]

How about a later last train from Bristol Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway during the week? 22.10 is not late enough. On Saturdays there is a 22.54, can this be added during the week?

[woody]

I agree, but roads are down graded every so often (e.g. M10 soon to be an A-road).

Maybe so but it's still a road and open 24/7, people will still use it irrespective of it's designation. The only thing they might do is slap a 60 or 50 mph restriction on it. However, that's not likely to deter many users.

But, you can only catch a train that runs so at present unless an earlier train to the West is provided you can't get to Plymouth any earlier in the day unless you drive or go by sleeper.

Just out of interest the first Air South West flight of the day from Gatwick to Plymouth departs Gatwick at 09:05 and arrives in Plymouth at 10:10.

[IndustryInsider]

I've stated my off-peak ideas for Maidenhead before, but improvements could be made to the evening service with no investment and little impact on track capacity.

I think a better late evening service should be provided from London to Maidenhead/Twyford. Evening stopping trains out of Paddington are very popular especially for Maidenhead passengers - even though they have to endure journey times of 40 minutes.

This could be achieved, for example, by stopping the 22:21, 23:21 and 00:21 departures from Paddington at Maidenhead, and stopping the 22:48 and 00:21 departures at Twyford. Connections onto the Marlow/Henley branches could perhaps be jigged about a bit to provide connections where necessary?

[IndustryInsider]

Another badly needed 'quick win' is to strenghen the first up Cotswold Line service on Sunday mornings - the 09:01 Gt. Malvern to Paddington (Oxford 10:30) HAS to be a turbo as it's the back working of the last down train on Saturday evening, but as there isn't another train heading towards London on the Cotswold Line for another two hours it is usually full-and-standing from Oxford and ridiculously busy after Slough.

A 2-car (or preferably even a 3-car) should be waiting at Oxford for the 09:01 to attach to. There are PLENTY of spare units around at this time of the day, so there really is no excuse for putting the punters through that level of overcrowding every week.

Also, when a turbo has to sub a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) on a Sunday afternoon/early evening Up service (seemingly less common now thankfully) there should be appropriate contingencies to ensure it has to be a 3-car and there should again be a 2/3 car added at Oxford.