Floating bus stops - good idea, or should they be banned?

[whole diary]

[grahame]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-69001698

Campaigners have called for a ban of so-called floating bus stops in London.

The design, which has a cycle lane between the stop and the pavement, is intended to allow bus passengers to get on and off safely while cyclists can keep moving.

Transport for London (TfL^» (Transport for London - about)), which has funded 160 of the stops, says the likelihood of being injured by a cyclist at a bypass is "very low".

The Department for Transport says schemes should be accessible to all.

The National Federation of the Blind UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s (NFB) has produced a petition which as been signed by more than 270 organisations and will be handed in to Downing Street later.

[Red Squirrel]

They work well when they’re well-designed, but can be really dangerous when they aren’t.

 A lot of cycling infrastructure seems to be designed by highways engineers who have no real understanding of how to make it safe and practical. And too often it is kludged in as an afterthought once the needs of private motorists have been generously accommodated.

The daftest bus stop schemes feature a narrowing of the bike path - which causes cyclists to speed up - or ramps which may encourage some to become airborne.

As with all road schemes, good design encourages safe usage.

[CyclingSid]

Unfortunatly, contary to the recommendation in LTN^▸ (Low Traffic Neighbourhood) 1/20 Cycle Infrastructure Design, most designers aren't cyclists. I also expect very few have the Institute of Highways Engineers specialist training in the subject.

[ChrisB]

Just find those that can be viewed over the internet - bikes do not give way to pedestrians, just try & go round them....while others try & cross too.

[Ralph Ayres]

Not saying there isn't some pretty bad cycling around and attitudes need to change, but videos are only likely to be posted of cyclists misbehaving, not the many who do the right thing, so it gives a skewed impression; I've not seen myself in any of them for a start.  You could probably build up just as disturbing a set of videos showing some car drivers' behaviour at pedestrian crossings if you were trying to make a point about bad driving.  I wonder if a significant proportion of those cycling badly have switched from driving and brought a bad attitude with them?  I'd certainly rather they were on a bike than behind the wheel of a car, though better still on a bus or train to reduce the opportunity for harm further.

[ellendune]

This is a report on the TfL^» (Transport for London - about) review https://road.cc/content/news/low-risk-cyclist-collisions-floating-bus-stops-306073  Selected quotes below.

London's walking and cycling commissioner Will Norman pointed out that of 623 reported instances of pedestrians being injured in a collision with a cyclist in London between 2020 and 2022, just four occurred at a floating bus stop (0.6 per cent — two people were seriously injured and another two suffered minor injuries). He concluded that "the casualty data shows there is a low risk of a pedestrian/cycling casualty at a bus stop bypass in London".

However, the presentation reportedly also accepted that "bus stop bypasses can be difficult and feel dangerous, particularly for older and disabled" people and included Mr Norman asking "what more could be done to increase the number of cyclists that yield to pedestrians at zebra crossings?"

A TfL spokesperson has since said it would be "retrofitting" floating bus stops with zebra crossings to "make clearer to people cycling that they must stop to allow people to cross", the meeting also hearing that a third of the bus stops' design did not meet the authority's "best practice" standard.

[ChrisB]

Not saying there isn't some pretty bad cycling around and attitudes need to change, but videos are only likely to be posted of cyclists misbehaving, not the many who do the right thing, so it gives a skewed impression; I've not seen myself in any of them for a start.  You could probably build up just as disturbing a set of videos showing some car drivers' behaviour at pedestrian crossings if you were trying to make a point about bad driving.  I wonder if a significant proportion of those cycling badly have switched from driving and brought a bad attitude with them?  I'd certainly rather they were on a bike than behind the wheel of a car, though better still on a bus or train to reduce the opportunity for harm further.

I really get fed up with this sort of opinion....no one disputes that car drivers are culprits....but so are cyclists. Doesn't matter whether it's a few or a lot. There are repercussions for drivers that pedestrian crossings. There is no reason why cyclists shouldn't be equally subject to these repercussions! They aren't currently, and that is the point.

cf the proposal for the new offence of causing death & serious injury. Even if it is only applied to half a dozen a year, there is no reason not to pass the law.

[Clan Line]

.........but videos are only likely to be posted of cyclists misbehaving, not the many who do the right thing, so it gives a skewed impression; I've not seen myself in any of them for a start.  You could probably build up just as disturbing a set of videos showing some car drivers' behaviour at pedestrian crossings if you were trying to make a point about bad driving.  I wonder if a significant proportion of those cycling badly have switched from driving and brought a bad attitude with them?  I'd certainly rather they were on a bike than behind the wheel of a car, though better still on a bus or train to reduce the opportunity for harm further.

This in itself gives a "skewed impression".........

"videos are only likely to be posted of cyclists misbehaving" .........true, but only because it is so easy to catch such occurences by cyclists.

I regularly drive through Warminster High St; the set of traffic lights located there provide continuous examples of cyclist blantantly ignoring the red lights. I have never seen a car veer up onto the pavement to drive through the red light............I can guarantee that a short wait at these lights will show a couple of cyclists doing this !
Likewise, I have never seen a motor vehicle going down the (one way) Close, the wrong way - however, plenty of cyclists seem to - then usually mounting the pavement when they see my car approching them head on !

I doubtless will now be called "anti-cyclist"........I am not......I would just like cyclists to obey the same laws that I, as a motorist, do.  The attitude that breaking the road traffic laws on a bike is, somehow, less harmful strikes me as somewhat bizarre. So, it's OK to shoplift from Tesco - but not from Mr Patel at the corner shop..............?

[Electric train]

They need cycle calming measures, ie to slow cyclists down making it safe for pedestrians.  There are some cyclists that do not respect the zebra crossings on cycleways, I have seen in London a few cyclists really !issed off because a police officer has pulled them for not giving way to pedestrians

[CyclingSid]

I will hold my hand up and admit that I do go through red traffic lights occassionally. Example; at the bottom of the Butts in Reading they have changed the lights from a timed sequence to traffic sensed. The problem is that particular set of road sensors does not sense bikes, so I could sit there a long time getting cold and wet.

I don't know the example quoted, but locally I do ride the wrong way down quiet residential streets on the last leg of the trip home.

Pavements or shared pedestian/bike pavements are not good places, which I think you should not be travelling at more than jogging speed. If you want to train for the Tour de France or you are making a delivery use the road.

The inconsistency of the governments pronouncements don't help. They announce that they are minded to allow (they are already out there) the faster, higher powered e-bikes, and the next thing they are complaining about danger to pedestrians and floating bus stops.

In amongst all this do we all know and comply with the Hierarchy of Users in the revised Highway Code?

[1st fan]

I was in Hammersmith in West London recently and they have put in a fabulous cycle lane around the broadway there and down ‘King’ Street. The person I was visiting said despite this very expensive new facility being there, some cyclists, especially delivery cyclists use the pavement. I then witnessed this first hand to my disappointment.