Under five children in Seats

[whole diary]

[chineseJohn]

Those who are travelling with small children should be aware that if you have a Family and Friends railcard you can purchase a child's fare for an under 5 voluntarily in order to get a discount on the accompanying adult's fare.

If my wife is travelling with my baby - we always buy a  ticket for him with F&F railcard. Always a saving.

[grahame]

I always amazed at the number of people who put bags on the seat during the height of rush hour ....

One opposite me at the moment - not actually the rush hour, but the very well loaded 22:15 Paddington to Bristol.   Not that I'm objecting - I can stretch my legs out under the table (for which I reserved a seat last month!)

[Phil]

Presumably though given the title of this thread, we are all agreed it's OK people putting up to 4 children on a single seat, right?

[johoare]

Presumably though given the title of this thread, we are all agreed it's OK people putting up to 4 children on a single seat, right?

Ha ha I didn't notice how that read.. And I usually would have...

[thetrout]

What i've recently been subjected to a couple of times on the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) line between SAL and WAT is passengers asking me to turn my music on my MP3 down... Which I would be happy to do so... IF there was music playing in the poxy first place!!!

I quite often walk around with my headphones in, but there is no music playing simply to quieten loud noises down and it has been helping to reduce my random panic attacks (Was in A&E 4 times last month for them )... Sometimes my headphones aren't even connected to my iPhone. The look on the other pax face when shown the Jack for the cable has been priceless

Sometimes if i'm feeling a little bit creative and asked to turn my sound down. I have been known to play mind games and say things like: "You need to see a Psychiatrist if you can hear music... As these headphones aren't even plugged in... *Shows Jack for Headphones*".......................

Sorry. 99.9996% of the time I am a nice and polite person. However I don't like moronic idiots that think just because they're sat in First Class they own the carriage... Err No!

[grahame]

It's astonishing what people will put up with ...  I kept a watchful eye on behaviours on Sunday evening when I joined a King's Cross to Cambridge service at King's Cross - shorter than usual and rammed by the time it left;  a very limited service indeed as all trains north were using the Hertford Loop.

Small child on seat ... precocious with her mum ... and she got chatting with people who were standing near her.   "I'm four - but 5 very soon" she announced for all to hear, but no-one suggested to mum that child should be on her lap, or standing, or offering her seat to someone more in need of it.

Woman seated in a bay of 4 with a small table, coats and luggage on all four seats, long before the train was due to leave. She was informing all comers  who enquired or who were about to sit down that the seats were 'reserved' and indeed - long after people were standing, and a couple of minutes before the train left, the rest of her party turned up.

I was in a window seat, one of an airline pair. Travelling companion sat inside from me, and rather than spill towards the corridor she spilled towards me.   Now Lisa and I will spill towards each other and we accept it, but ...  ... and she must have been very tired as she kept falling asleep and sagging onto me ... really left it pretty hard for me to do anything / type etc.  Which is why I was so much able to watch mother-and-four-year old which is where I started this post!

[TaplowGreen]

It's no wonder I can never find a chimneysweep these days, the little so and sos are all gallivanting around on trains! 

[grahame]

On this day ... 2nd February - 2012 to 2022

10 years ago - conditions of carriage:

Up to two children under five years of age may accompany each fare-paying passenger free of charge. However, children under five years of age who are travelling free may only occupy a seat which is not required by a fare-paying passenger.

Now - conditions of travel:

Children under five years of age may travel free of charge without a Ticket providing that they are travelling with a passenger holding a valid Ticket or other authority to travel.

[broadgage]

I would be displeased if after paying the full fare, I was expected to stand in order that children without any tickets could take the seats.

Presumably the owners of the children will be entitled to priority boarding, so as to decrease the chances of ordinary ticket holders getting a seat.

Glad I use trains less these days.

[JayMac]

Unless a reservation has been made, no passenger has an entitlement to a seat. Your fare, or authority to travel in the case of no fare, is for transport from A to B, nothing else. The amount paid does not increase one's right to a seat.

I personally prefer to see toddlers sat down with something to occupy them. Far better than on the loose. When I used to take my nephew on trips he was happiest sitting in a seat next to his uncle. I kept him engaged by telling him things about the railways. Under 5s have an authority to travel. First come, first served.

Someone less able should of course be offered the seat. That's common decency and a teaching point for children. But to an able bodied person just because they may have paid more for their journey? No.

[Bmblbzzz]

the owners of the children ...

You have this the wrong way round – unless you're using "own" in the modern business sense of "acknowledge responsibility for". Children own their parents, just as cats are in fact the parents of their alleged owners.

[Richard Fairhurst]

I would be displeased if after paying the full fare, I was expected to stand

In that case may I suggest you never travel with CrossCountry

Slightly more seriously, though I do see your point; a) the fault is that of the train operator/DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) not providing enough seats, not of the family travelling within the rules; and b) unfortunately, in an age of advance tickets, amount paid now bears basically no relation to service received.

[paul7575]

When I were a lad, in 1960s Newcastle, the buses had signs advising that anyone travelling on a half fare must give up their seat if an adult was standing…

Don’t times change…

[grahame]

When I were a lad, in 1960s Newcastle, the buses had signs advising that anyone travelling on a half fare must give up their seat if an adult was standing…

Don’t times change…

There are still sparkles of that around from politeness - actually a bit embarrassed to be offered a seat myself at one point.

So what should the bus hierarchy be?  Paying adults get the seats first, half fare children are next in line, and if any are left over they're for the seniors who have been paid for through the ENCTS^▸ (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) scheme?