Teaching people how to open doors

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Reminds me of the (not issued) advice (or practice) on the SR^‡(resolve) slammers that went something like:

1 When the train is about 100 yards from your destination, lean out of the window, grab hold of the outer door handle and with your other hand steady yourself against the inside of the train.

2 When your doorway passes the platform entry ramp, unlock the door but hold it close to the train body against your foot.

3 When the train has slowed to a fast walking place, open the door and step onto the first outer wooden step.

...

You need to add the bit that if the platform is to your left (looking forward from within the train) you need to push the door outwards, but if the platform is to your right, you need to hold onto the door to control its outward movement ...

[eightonedee]

In (half-hearted) defence of ScotRail

- Forgetting that other operators in their area have operated similar trains for years is typical inward-looking institutional/corporate behaviour. I think they have been running second generation DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) with power operated doors for about 30 years themselves on these routes, and just haven't looked around at what others do.

- an increasing number and proportion of train travelers have no experience of slam door trains being the norm, and indeed may never have had to open a slam door ever. Some reading this thread would be alarmed at the (jocular, I know) account of how passengers behaved in the past.

- their publicity team would not be the first to look a little foolish trying to be up-beat about a less than ideal situation -the fact that some scruffy trains are having to be pressed into service before they have been refurbished ready for their new role. It's the way of PR^▸ (Public Relations) folk, I'm afraid.
 
I agree though that a simple "we're sorry, we are having to introduce these trains before they are ready due to delays with our suppliers, but in case you are unfamiliar with manual doors, this is how they work" approach would have saved them looking daft in the eyes of the members of this forum and many other experienced rail travelers.   

[grahame]

I think the Rab C Nesbitt soundtrack is rather appropriate... after seeing this, I look on HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s with fresh eyes. Isn't it astonishing that in 2018, in what is still nominally and for now a first-world country, people are expected to push a (potentially pretty stiff) window down, lean (quite a long way) out and turn a handle just to open a door?

In (half-hearted) defence of ScotRail

- an increasing number and proportion of train travelers have no experience of slam door trains being the norm, and indeed may never have had to open a slam door ever. Some reading this thread would be alarmed at the (jocular, I know) account of how passengers behaved in the past.
  

I have stood at Swindon waiting to join an HST and had to push forward through a group of people to open a door as they stood waiting to join a newly arrived train.   Also had to show people how to open a door to get off there. And that's a place where HSTs have been the norm.     The video is not as silly as some may think, but whether the people who are unfamiliar with slam door trains will see it .... I guess that exposure on places like this (not that we will go viral, but Facebook could) may help a bit.  Reaching your whole market is a real issue!

[Bmblbzzz]

The "eccentric" thing to my mind is having a door with a handle on only one side. We all know why that was done (though do all passengers know that?) but it's a bit of a neither here nor there solution, compared to either modern-conventional push buttons or a door with handles on both sides, with an interlock to prevent opening in motion if deemed necessary (which it surely would be).

[Alan Pettitt]

I seem to remember that when HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) were first introduced there was an aluminium plate on the inside of the door covering the space where an internal handle would have been. It would therefore, surely, be a very simple matter to fit handles inside, now that they have central door locking.

[didcotdean]

I was behind someone earlier this month on an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) that was under the impression the doors would open automatically at the station and didn't require pressing a button. Maybe they were used to Underground trains.

[Red Squirrel]

The "eccentric" thing to my mind is having a door with a handle on only one side. We all know why that was done (though do all passengers know that?) but it's a bit of a neither here nor there solution, compared to either modern-conventional push buttons or a door with handles on both sides, with an interlock to prevent opening in motion if deemed necessary (which it surely would be).

Perhaps 'eccentric' is an understatement. I presume that the inner handles were removed as a quick cheap solution, and the more expensive central locking systems came later:

In the 1980s, fatalities due to falls from moving trains were on average 20 per year and were a growing public concern. In 1991/92 HMRI^▸ (Her Majesty's Railway Inspectorate) were part of an HSE^▸ (Health and Safety Executive) investigation which looked into the cause of these incidents including examinations of the design, operation and use of train doors and locks and the associated installation and maintenance procedures used by British Rail.

The subsequent published report (passenger falls from train doors, report of an HSE investigation) found that there was evidence of poor maintenance procedures, doors and locks poorly fitted and a design failure. The report, published in 1993 and its recommendations implemented by the industry, resulted in a significant decrease in fatalities and serious injuries.

Source: ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)

You can read the report here: http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=393

It concluded that BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) really ought to maintain their locks properly, but falls short of insisting on removing inner handles or installing central locking systems. Many accidents seem to have been ascribed to misalignment; in the worst cases a door would jam in its frame with the lock stuck open. In some cases it is believed that in attempting to close doors which had half-caught, passengers tried to open them to get a better slam, and were hauled out of the speeding train as the door swung open. Horrifying.

[onthecushions]

I think that the 4VEP (423) SR^‡(resolve) units did have internal handles (or sliding levers), the 4CIG (421) units did not.

There was a technique for safely closing fully, a part closed door, even on the move.

Let's not get on to windows with leather straps.....

OTC

[Bmblbzzz]

If there was "a technique" it clearly wasn't obvious to the uninitiated and therefore was a bit of a problem in something the public have to deal with everyday in their thousands.

I remember that at the time the central locking was introduced, the press was reporting that most of the deaths were due to drunkenness.

[Red Squirrel]

...

I remember that at the time the central locking was introduced, the press was reporting that most of the deaths were due to drunkenness.

Something to be borne in mind by those who think everything would magically get better if only the railways were nationalised, rather than being mostly nationalised as they are now. I also remember BR^▸ (British Rail(ways))'s version of events being peddled by the MSM at the time, but the HSE^▸ (Health and Safety Executive) found otherwise...