South Eastern Franchise and Kent Route Study consultations

[whole diary]

[stuving]

You may have seen some of the headlines following DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s announcement of a consultation about the next South Eastern franchise. They picked out one question - for example this from the Guardian:

First class could be axed in next Southeastern rail franchise

Department for Transport considers scrapping compartments in attempt to create more space on commuter trains

• Tell us: would scrapping first class improve the Southeastern service?

A Southeastern train in Greenwich, London. Trains could be refurbished in metro style with sideways-facing seats. Photograph: Alamy Stock Photo

Gwyn Topham Transport correspondent   Tuesday 14 March 2017 17.50 GMT

First class compartments could be scrapped on commuter trains into London under proposals for the next Southeastern rail franchise.

In an attempt to free up space on the busy commuter network, which handles 640,000 passenger journeys on 1,900 train services every weekday, the government is considering making all trains one standard class.

Trains could also be refurbished in “metro style” – removing traditional seating in favour of sideways-facing seats and more standing space.

While the Department for Transport could extend the length of some trains, possibly up to 12 carriages, that could involve costly infrastructure work at many stations and along the line, whereas scrapping first class would be a quick way to free up space.

The DfT has launched a 10-week consultation to hear views of passengers in south-east London, Kent and East Sussex, with the new franchise to be let from 2018.

Now the DfT web page doesn't mention this. The consultation document does, but rather vaguely:

A further consideration is the existing provision of First Class seating. We recognise that First Class tickets remain popular on certain routes, notably on the South Eastern main line to Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells. However, removing it would create more room for passengers, which would be important during peak hours.

So it isn't clear how much 1st class they think might be removed, or from which services. I'm not familiar with the far side of south London, but AFAICS^▸ (As Far As I Can See) there isn't much 1st on the Metro services, and the ones DfT refer to are Main Line ones. It wouldn't make much room for passengers, as they suggest - only for standard class ones, as the 375s have 2+2 seating anyway. Oddly, under the heading "To reconfigure/rearrange/redesign/adapt trains" they don't mention converting to 3+2 (see under SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Portsmouth services and arguments thereabout).

Further down that Guardian article is this:

Campaigners welcomed the idea of scrapping first class compartments. Lianna Etkind, of the Campaign for Better Transport, said: “Overcrowding is a major problem and it can be galling to see people lounging comfortably in half empty first class carriages when you’re crammed nose to armpit in cattle class every day.”

First class carriages? Whole ones? On Southeastern? Really?

The other front runner is, of course, longer trains. The Metro routes in particular do seem to have a majority of stations already capably of taking 12-cr trains, so this looks an obvious move. However (as hinted in the question) it's still going to cost an arm and more than one leg. That's in the Kent Route Study, for which there is also a consultation (and link and prod from DfT) starting today.

[grahame]

I'm in danger of quoting from nearly 50 years back when I was a regular commuter to Sevenoaks and used to watch trainload upon trainload of the rather more affluent commuters flowing out of London.  It struck me as a very sharp peak in those days, with the traffic to Sevenoaks and beyond being quite different to intermediate traffic out on the suburban trains serving stations to Dunton Green or Bat and Ball.  Even in those days there was no first on the inner trains.

Passengers via Rochester and via Ashford (other "high-class" commuters in those days) have been improved with the Javalin services into St Pancras - and as an educated guess I would imagine that much / most of their first class traffic has gone onto the new faster service, leaving just services via Tunbridge Wells as the only full-distance ones uniquely inbound to Charing Cross / Cannon Street / Victoria (Eastern)

[Electric train]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Southeast Route, that is the Kent and Sussex parts accounts for 25% of all the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s mainline train services and over 25% of NR budget / revenue.

The Kent routes and expanding in volumes of passengers quicker than any other route in the UK.

I suspect the proposed service to St Pancras from Hastings via Ashford will be bi-mode Javelins between Hastings and Ashford, and the HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) services will be stropped out of the SE franchise as separate franchise, Grayling seems keen on smaller franchises.

It is interesting the comment in the Evening Standard during the week about an outer orbital railway, the bolstering of the Tonbridge Redhill line this gives the potential of a Reading to at least Tonbridge service which could add to the argument to electrify the North Downs.

There is a bit of research going on at the moment about renewable energy and how it can be integrated into existing systems so a bi-mode train with a battery pack that is charged by electrification when available, by regen braking and by the on board genset (that way the genset does not run all the time only to top up the batteries after a train start of acceleration.

[broadgage]

It is interesting the comment in the Evening Standard during the week about an outer orbital railway, the bolstering of the Tonbridge Redhill line this gives the potential of a Reading to at least Tonbridge service which could add to the argument to electrify the North Downs.

There is a bit of research going on at the moment about renewable energy and how it can be integrated into existing systems so a bi-mode train with a battery pack that is charged by electrification when available, by regen braking and by the on board genset (that way the genset does not run all the time only to top up the batteries after a train start of acceleration.

I cant support the idea of an on board generator that starts and stops frequently since this increases wear and tear, reduces efficiency and gives more things to do wrong.
I would prefer to either have a large enough battery that no generator is needed, or if this is not viable, then to have a relatively small generator that runs continually on non electrified parts of the route. This generator could be sized for the AVERAGE power demand, with the battery supplying peaks and charging in troughs of power demand.

[ChrisB]

1st class on Southeastern are normal STD seating, simply fitted with a cloth over the top of the seats (I forget the 'technical' term. Yes, in their exclusive area, but removing this cloth and the 1st decals on the windows will be a simple job.

[IndustryInsider]

Technical term is 'Antimaccasars' - Maccasar Oil being a popular product used by men to condition the hair at the dawn of the railway age.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macassar_oil