Cross Country Direct Award Consultation

[whole diary]

[readytostart]

One annoyance for me is that 1V60, the 0820 ABD-PNZ runs five minutes in front of a ScotRail semi-fast between Dundee and Edinburgh calling at the same stops, scooping up all of the passengers, both local and long distance. It's been like that for years and having worked for both companies I can say that the ScotRail is empty and the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) full to bursting. Now common sense would say run the ScotRail in front and take stops out of the XC, with connections made at Haymarket, those making local journeys with little advance planning get to travel on a train with no reservations applied and those making longer journeys can hang back a bit and get on a train where they can actually reach their reserved seat!

[eightf48544]

Like your comments RTS. This should happen all the way from Aberdeen to Plymouth. So you have locals in front from Aberdeen Edinburgh, Edinburgh Newcastle, Newcastle York, York Derby? Derby Birmingham, Birmingham Bristol, Bristol Plymouth and then the stopper folow the CC from Plymouth.

In the reverse direction the stopper is in front to Edinburgh and then follows to Aberdeen.

[readytostart]

Like your comments RTS. This should happen all the way from Aberdeen to Plymouth. So you have locals in front from Aberdeen Edinburgh, Edinburgh Newcastle, Newcastle York, York Derby? Derby Birmingham, Birmingham Bristol, Bristol Plymouth and then the stopper folow the CC from Plymouth.

In the reverse direction the stopper is in front to Edinburgh and then follows to Aberdeen.

In the reverse there is an 1800 ScotRail to Dundee, unfortunately it's usually delayed by a local jeopardising the onward connection from XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) at Aberdeen for Dyce and Inverurie - as a direct service from the North East (of England that is!) the train carries a lot of offshore workers needing the airport at Dyce.
Another irritation is that peak restrictions finish at 1809, the XC is 1810!

[grahame]

A couple of years back, I quite often used the CrossCountry train that arrived into Temple Meads at 20:38 and I connected into the 20:49 Weymouth service (I think my memory serves me right - the timing was certainly just inside the official connection time for Temple Meads).   A useful connection, but it must have been a bit of a nightmare for staff on those days that the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) was running a bit late - indeed I have been part of such an incident where about a dozen people were left stranded.  Delay blamed on XC by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff as then was, even though the XC had been on time until quite close to Bristol where it had gotten behind a late running FGW local which had caused the delay (which may, of course, in turn have been held up by Arrival Trains Wales at Gloucester  ).

Anyway - problem solved.  The XC is now scheduled into Bristol Temple Meads at 20:41, meaning that this no longer counts as a connection and the rail industry can now say "tough - your problem!" to anyone who sets off from Birmingham for Weymouth at the time they always have, and finds they can no longer get beyond Frome ...

I'm not offering an alternative solution - rather a need to consider / be aware of onward connections, especially if the drive is towards XC trains not making more local stops.   The accountant's compensation culture solution is to time / schedule the XC services to arrive just after the last available connecting time at key stations, and I suppose that helps relieve overcrowding too.  But it's a pretty negative approach ...

[eightf48544]

Re connections Graham you have hit the nail on the head. The problem is that the "bean counters" have never been able to cost a Network as a whole rather than indiviual legs. Thus the potential of  connections is not factored into the costings for a particular train. This is exacerbated in your Birmingham Weymouth example by having to two different TOCS who in theory are supposed to compete with each other and all the complictions of splitting the revenue from the ticket.

Although BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) was not beyond such tactics. My friend ran the Regent Street Travel Centre and increased the revenue quite considerably. Unfortunately it came under the Southern for pay and rations and the revenue. Most of the tickets sold were to Tourists to York and Edinburgh on the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train). The Eastern Region got it closed because they were not getting the revenue.

[JayMac]

A couple of years back, I quite often used the CrossCountry train that arrived into Temple Meads at 20:38 and I connected into the 20:49 Weymouth service (I think my memory serves me right - the timing was certainly just inside the official connection time for Temple Meads).   A useful connection, but it must have been a bit of a nightmare for staff on those days that the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) was running a bit late - indeed I have been part of such an incident where about a dozen people were left stranded.  Delay blamed on XC by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff as then was, even though the XC had been on time until quite close to Bristol where it had gotten behind a late running FGW local which had caused the delay (which may, of course, in turn have been held up by Arrival Trains Wales at Gloucester  ).

I'm not offering an alternative solution - rather a need to consider / be aware of onward connections, especially if the drive is towards XC trains not making more local stops.   The accountant's compensation culture solution is to time / schedule the XC services to arrive just after the last available connecting time at key stations, and I suppose that helps relieve overcrowding too.  But it's a pretty negative approach ...

Looking back through old timetables it appears that the CrossCountry arrival has been at 2040 or later since they took over the franchise in late 2007. Prior to that, in Virgin Cross Country days, it was as early as 2036. That's more than a couple of years back though. At first glance it would appear that the conspiracy theory is correct if you look back nearly 10 years. Arriva CrossCountry had changed their timetable and an official connection to the Weymouth train at 2049 was no longer possible.

However, in 2008, a couple of years after First Great Western had taken over from Wessex Trains, changes were made to the timetable for services from Great Malvern to Bristol. The 4 a day services from Great Malvern (two to Gloucester only), in Wessex Trains days, were increased to 6 a day (all to Bristol or beyond) and evenly spread. This included a service departing Great Malvern at 1854 (today 1850) that runs ahead of the CrossCountry service arriving in Bristol at 2037 (now 2039). That train has taken the path of the CrossCountry service as it nears Bristol TM^‡(resolve), pushing the XC arrival into Bristol TM back to 2040 or 2041.

So, the reality is that changes to First Great Western's timetable mean that the 1912 from Birmingham (formerly the 1910) now cannot arrive any earlier. Throughout the day its the same. A GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service from either Great Malvern, Worcester, Cheltenham or Gloucester runs just ahead of the xx12 XC departures from Birmingham as they approach Bristol.

Easy to blame CrossCountry for their being no official connection between their 2041 arrival at Bristol TM to the 2049 GWR to Weymouth, but misplaced blame I feel.

I'll offer a potential solution. How about getting GWR to move the Weymouth departure back to 2051? After all it is they (in FGW guise) whose changes in 2008 now prevent earlier XC arrivals in Bristol TM. I can't see any junction or path conflicts between Bristol and Westbury. At Westbury the 2049 ex Bristol TM it currently dwells for 5 minutes. That could be reduced to 3 and then its back to its current timings from there.

Finally, I wasn't aware that it was the accountants or the compensation culture that dictated timetables. Surely that's down to Network Rail and the operators. CrossCountry are always in a somewhat invidious position. Their services have to be threaded between multiple different TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)' local services as the head up and down the country. There are always going to be some connections that are either just outside official interchange times or ones that leave passengers with a long wait. Blame for poor connections should not be laid at their door.

[grahame]

Easy to blame CrossCountry for their being no official connection between their 2041 arrival at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) to the 2049 GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to Weymouth, but misplaced blame I feel.

Noting your timings ... it certainly was an official connection when I was using it a couple of years back, but agreed it's gone in and out.   I wasn't intending to come across as attributing blame, but rather reporting on the blame attribution that went on when it was official and failed to connect.

I'll offer a potential solution. How about getting GWR to move the Weymouth departure back to 2051? After all it is they (in FGW^▸ (First Great Western) guise) whose changes in 2008 now prevent earlier XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) arrivals in Bristol TM. I can't see any junction or path conflicts between Bristol and Westbury. At Westbury the 2049 ex Bristol TM it currently dwells for 5 minutes. That could be reduced to 3 and then its back to its current timings from there.

I have made that suggestion is the past, but I suspect it's gone into the "too many suggestions, too little time to explore them seriously" bucket, or another section of the long-grass field. Certainly not heard a good reason why not.

Finally, I wasn't aware that it was the accountants or the compensation culture that dictated timetables. Surely that's down to Network Rail and the operators. CrossCountry are always in a somewhat invidious position. Their services have to be threaded between multiple different TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)' local services as the head up and down the country. There are always going to be some connections that are either just outside official interchange times or ones that leave passengers with a long wait. Blame for poor connections should not be laid at their door.

I would go along with "blame for poor connections should not always be laid at their door".  There's no way that everything can connect with everything else - but at the same time there are occasions where the TOCs and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) together could do better.   And we've had discussions on here before about recovery times at certain points in journeys to help end-of-journey stats, and public and working timetables differing. 

As a matter of interest, I looked back at the now-non-connection at Bristol as an example over the last few days

* On Monday, it connected.  However, passengers from north of Birmingham would have been disappointed because the train from Scotland terminated an hour later there, with a fresh train found for passengers heading further south

* On Tuesday, the train from Birmingham arrived 30 seconds before the Weymouth left. I'm pretty sure that was a miss

* On Wednesday, it missed by 5 minutes

* On Thursday, it connected (just)

Clearly, not advertised, not official, not recommended these days.  But on previous official uses, it was officially recommended ...

[JayMac]

I stand, partially, corrected.

May '12 to Dec '12 and Dec '12 to May '13 timetables do indeed have the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) arrival at 2039. Either side of those its 2040 or later.

Perhaps CrossCountry tried to make the connection work, but realised that following a stopper that closely wasn't sustainable.

Had the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) timetable recast in 2008 not put the ex Gt Malvern in the way then maybe the connection could have been maintained permanently.

Looks like CrossCountry tried it for one year. Then realised it couldn't be sustained.