Well done FGW for ticket check

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

Nevertheless considering how I was dressed (tracksuit & overalls covered in paint and mud - long story!) I just felt socially awkward in that situation. That however was probably an Autistic thing vs. Normal Behavior.

Sounds like normal behaviour to me. 

[thetrout]

Were you trying to be a rainbow trout? 

Sounds like normal behaviour to me. 

For me perhaps yes

Not a rainbow trout... Grumpy-Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services)-Trout...



I had spent the day in service tunnels installing a couple Fibre Optic Cables for a "for fun" project I've been working with. I'm the only one who doesn't mind going in the tunnels as the others are too whimpish due to spiders

Ironically the mud came from the actual station itself. Tripping over my own feet and falling into an embankment that was still a little damp from recent rain... My luck levels are non existent and misfortune at exorbitant levels!

[Brucey]

To check that those using them had indeed touched in where they should have done. PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) if they hadn't.

Possibly a whole discussion of it's own, but I wonder how PF issuing will reduce when contactless cards become more widespread for fare evasion.

For Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) cards, "swipes" in and out are stored on the card.  The barriers and handheld card readers require no network connection and can work out whether you have touched in immediately.

However, with contactless cards, information on the card is simply captured on swiping and fares/journeys calculated during an overnight process.  The new handheld readers cannot tell the operator that you haven't touched in with a contactless card.  The inspector's device will capture your card details they check overnight whether you were touched into a journey at that very moment in time.  A maximum fare (not penalty fare) then gets deducted overnight.

Cue a whole load of chancers just presenting their contactless card to inspectors as the maximum fare is cheaper than buying an actual ticket everyday.

[Chris from Nailsea]

I had spent the day in service tunnels installing a couple Fibre Optic Cables for a "for fun" project I've been working with. I'm the only one who doesn't mind going in the tunnels as the others are too whimpish due to spiders

That seems to me to be rather adventurous behaviour, for a young trout - well done! 

Best watch out for one of these, though. 

[ChrisB]

Cue a whole load of chancers just presenting their contactless card to inspectors as the maximum fare is cheaper than buying an actual ticket everyday.

That's why contactless is only valid across the same Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) area, and no further - so the maximum fare is always higher than the actual fare.
When Oyster/contactless is extended outwards, they will need to increase this maximum to cover the highest fare, to keep it a deterrent

[paul7575]

However, with contactless cards, information on the card is simply captured on swiping and fares/journeys calculated during an overnight process.  The new handheld readers cannot tell the operator that you haven't touched in with a contactless card.  The inspector's device will capture your card details they check overnight whether you were touched into a journey at that very moment in time.  A maximum fare (not penalty fare) then gets deducted overnight.

Cue a whole load of chancers just presenting their contactless card to inspectors as the maximum fare is cheaper than buying an actual ticket everyday.

There's been a discussion elsewhere that suggests there'll be a limit (unpublished) to the number of times a max cash fare will be charged before they take a different action.  An obvious thing to do would be to hotlist the card and stop you at a barrier, but if you keep doing it on an unbarriered part of the network they'll get to you via your bank...

Paul

[Fourbee]

However, with contactless cards, information on the card is simply captured on swiping and fares/journeys calculated during an overnight process.  The new handheld readers cannot tell the operator that you haven't touched in with a contactless card.  The inspector's device will capture your card details they check overnight whether you were touched into a journey at that very moment in time.  A maximum fare (not penalty fare) then gets deducted overnight.

Cue a whole load of chancers just presenting their contactless card to inspectors as the maximum fare is cheaper than buying an actual ticket everyday.

There's been a discussion elsewhere that suggests there'll be a limit (unpublished) to the number of times a max cash fare will be charged before they take a different action.  An obvious thing to do would be to hotlist the card and stop you at a barrier, but if you keep doing it on an unbarriered part of the network they'll get to you via your bank...

Paul

I added my contactless cards to my tfl account recently. As far as I can remember there was a mention that if for any reason the a fare cannot be collected then this will be flagged requiring your attention (i.e. a payment required) and the card will be blocked. Presumably this hot list will be synchronised to all gates, buses, readers etc.

I would guess once you've cleared any issues the card may not be accepted until the next day when an update has occurred. If entering an unbarried station and encountering an inspector in this scenario, I would imagine they would need to make further checks.

[Fourbee]

And again, I'd assume if the card is "unregistered" any outstanding fares would need to be paid from that card to unblock it.

None of which would stop tfl making representations to the issuing bank of course in the meantime.

[Brucey]

Looking at the TfL^» (Transport for London - about) website, it seems they will block a contactless card after failed revenue inspections or on detection of suspicious travel activity.

My understanding now is that the devices (new style handheld readers, buses, barriers and standalone readers) all synchronise at least every 30 minutes.  This means it can be very fast for TfL to identify dodgy activity (and potentially flag up an "unstarted journey" during an inspection later in the journey).

[Fourbee]

I was considering running down the balance left on my Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) and relying on contactless alone.

However, if you did a "few" contactless journeys without a chip and PIN transaction I assume there is a chance the card would not work which would be inconvenient. Obviously the banks do not elaborate as to the number of sequential contacless transactions that can be made before that happens.

[devon_metro]

I was considering running down the balance left on my Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) and relying on contactless alone.

However, if you did a "few" contactless journeys without a chip and PIN transaction I assume there is a chance the card would not work which would be inconvenient. Obviously the banks do not elaborate as to the number of sequential contacless transactions that can be made before that happens.

I used my contactless card for a few weeks on the tube and encountered no issues. By touching the card on the reader it doesn't actually authorise a payment in the traditional sense, instead noting where the card is touched during the day. TFL^▸ (Transport for London) then do the maths and decide how much to charge you at the end of the day (as I understand it!). The payments only ever appeared on my statement as one daily amount and sometimes didn't appear if I reached the weekly cap.

[paul7575]

I was considering running down the balance left on my Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) and relying on contactless alone.

However, if you did a "few" contactless journeys without a chip and PIN transaction I assume there is a chance the card would not work which would be inconvenient. Obviously the banks do not elaborate as to the number of sequential contacless transactions that can be made before that happens.

I used my contactless card for a few weeks on the tube and encountered no issues. By touching the card on the reader it doesn't actually authorise a payment in the traditional sense, instead noting where the card is touched during the day. TFL^▸ (Transport for London) then do the maths and decide how much to charge you at the end of the day (as I understand it!). The payments only ever appeared on my statement as one daily amount and sometimes didn't appear if I reached the weekly cap.

I believe TfL^» (Transport for London - about) and the banks have developed a specific process of using contactless payment for travel which doesn't ever include asking for your PIN.  The ticket gates couldn't read a PIN anyway.

Paul

[devon_metro]

I believe TfL^» (Transport for London - about) and the banks have developed a specific process of using contactless payment for travel which doesn't ever include asking for your PIN.  The ticket gates couldn't read a PIN anyway.

Paul

Indeed, I can only begin to imagine the chaos at the gatelines if it rejected contactless cards. I notice that they are marginally slower than an Oyster^▸ (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card, or maybe that's just my impatience 

[BerkshireBugsy]

There are some excellent TMs^‡(resolve) that enforce the rules of First Class to the letter. Recently on the 16:30 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) - TAU^» (Taunton - next trains) we had a TM who checked tickets the moment that train left Paddington. His approach was different in the following:

"Would you like to upgrade sir?"

Which seemed a more diplomatic way to go about it. Some paid the upgrade, some moved. First Class was extremely well loaded with perhaps only 4 or 5 seats spare. In Coach K we had just 1 seat spare.

More recently I boarded a train (which I shan't list to protect the staff and the guilty...) and discovered First Class completely full. It was one of those insidious sets with just 1 First Class Coach... So I just perched myself in the vestibule and the TM then saw and recognised me and said:

TM: "I'll go kick'em out then as it's you..."
Me: "What do you mean?!"
TM: "We've been rammed since <redacted> so I got like 30 noobs* down here..."
Me: "Uh oh..."

Que the booting of a large handful of middle age folk... I could do nothing but look at the floor

*noobs is a derogatory term for new players who doesn't know what they're doing - computer gamer talk

TT I always enjoy reading your posts but that one especially!