Loss of customer - failed connection, 17:45 ex Paddington

[whole diary]

[grahame]

6.1.2014 .... 17:45 Paddington to Swansea was delayed by about 10 minutes outside Reading and was 15 late by Swindon. 18:50 to Westbury left before it arrived.    Result ...

From: emailme <emailme@grantbaxter.co.uk>
Date:
To: graham@wcrp.org.uk
Subject: Melksham train station


Hi Graham,

Not sure if you remember talking to me, I was at the Melksham Train station yesterday. Spoke to you about journey to London? Any way I thought you might want to know, my return journey yesterday was unfortunately a very bad experience not getting home until after 8pm as the train was delayed (train was at 5:45 from London). I was also going to try catching the train again this however the train was delayed 5 mins meaning I would of missed the Westbury train so had to divert back to Chippenham.

I honestly dont think the Melksham station is a good idea for those like me traveling long distances like London, but better for the casual trips which wont be such a problem for delays.

I also dont this is actually all to blame for the Melksham station but more for the reliability of trains between different destinations. Unfortunately I have decided I wont be using the Melksham station for my commute to London due to the shortage of trains, I will however being using for my own casual travel.

Hope this is clear ( ony mobile)

Thanks

Grant

[Phil]

I have decided I wont be using the Melksham station for my commute to London due to the shortage of trains

At least it's useful evidence that even MORE trains than we currently enjoy are needed 

[bobm]

Possibly, but I think it also underlines the fact that the work at Reading cannot finish soon enough.  A train leaving Reading on time is the exception rather than the rule at the moment, and this has knock on effects for a lot of travellers.  It is jam tomorrow and may well be too late for the would be passenger in the opening post.

[grahame]

My initial reply ...

Hope this is clear ( ony mobile)

Good morning [or "afternoon" by the time I am sending], Grant ^. all too clear, I'm afraid :-( ^

Immediately, I note that the 17:45 from Paddington appeared to get stuck at / before Reading for about 10 minutes and got  to Swindon at 18:58 (Schedule 18:43), thus missing the 18:50 to Westbury (and on to Southampton).  Following train for Melksham was 20:12 from Swindon.

We need to learn from experiences, and I really appreciate you taking the time to let me know.    I'm copying the issue and some generalities from it with both First and Wiltsshire (that's why I've put in specific train times just above) and it'll make the wider review pot.   Should they come up with anything more than I can, I'll let you know

My thoughts ^.

a) We are in (still in, by the sounds of it this morning) a period of quite exceptional weather.  Roads have been closed and impassible by car, buses ^ and indeed I think that the problems yesterday were caused by a backlog of trains / flooding near to Didcot.   I would really encourage you to try once or twice again rather than give up on it after a single experience in a period of exceptional weather

b) I have changed into the 18:50 (previously 18:44) from Swindon on numerous occasions in the past, and (yes, I admit it) there have been occasions when the 17:45 from Paddington has failed to get there in time.  By catching the 17:30 from Paddington, I've found that I very rarely indeed have a problem - and indeed I can then change at Chippenham which is same-platform.  I often travel with heavy luggage and that's good too.   Indeed, systemically I think I would like to see the 17:30 as being the advertised connection rather than the 17:45 ^ even if the 17:30 is very late , the 18:50 will be held to let it go first from Swindon as First won't want to delay the 8 car, 125 mph express to Bristol (the 17:30 from Paddington) while the 1 car, 75 mph regional service to Westbury and Southampton dawdles along the main line in front of it.

Please do let me know how you get on with your regional trips, and please let us help you (and you help us!) make the most of this for practical trips from Melksham

Graham

I resisted getting into split ticket saving on 17:30 as I have no indication that he is cost sensitive, and I don't want to get into those complexities

[Brucey]

Given the next service to Melksham was not until 2012, would that not have entitled the passenger to a courtesy taxi?  If this is the case, then clearly more needs to be done to ensure customers are aware of this.

[grahame]

Given the next service to Melksham was not until 2012, would that not have entitled the passenger to a courtesy taxi?  If this is the case, then clearly more needs to be done to ensure customers are aware of this.

Is it 1 hour or 2??

[JayMac]

No official time codified in the Conditions of Carriage. At the whim, discretion and courtesy of the train operator. Except if you've missed the last connection of the day. Then onward transport should be provided, or if this is not possible, overnight accommodation.

[anthony215]

When I read the comments from this gentleman about the issue's he had I do  look forward to when the work at Reading is completed as this should help improve the reliability of connections between mainline services and the Transwiltshire service @ Swindon.

Of course the recent weather conditions have certainly not helped. That said I am glad this gentleman is prepared to continue using Melksham for his leisure travel and hopefully in the future he will return to using it for his commuting when the service is further improved with teh frequency of trains increased.

 At teh moment I do think FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/National Rail enquiries should change the connection from the 1745 to the 1730 high speed service from London at least until the major works around Reading is completed and reliability picks up allowing the decision to be reviewed

[grahame]

At teh moment I do think FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/National Rail enquiries should change the connection from the 1745 to the 1730 high speed service from London at least until the major works around Reading is completed and reliability picks up allowing the decision to be reviewed

I am ... tempted ... by the idea of suggesting a 10 minute change allowance at Swindon (certainly to TransWilts trains).  That would move London departures ...
07:45 to 07:36 (note 1)
09:45 to 09:36 (note 1)
11:45 to 11:36 (note 1)
14:00 would not change
16:30 to 16:15 (note 2)
17:45 to 17:42 (note 1)
19:00 would not change (note 3)

1 - Also means that passengers will change at Swindon cross-platform as they'll now travel on the Cheltenham Spa train which (I suspect) would also be a quieter service

2 - The 16:30 offers a change in just 6 minutes at Swindon.  However, the TransWilts train is likely to be held longer if the 16:30 is running late so as to follow it all the way to Thingley - all the other changes are off South Wales trains which go their separate way at Royal Wootton Bassett

3 - There's enough time here.  However, as its into the last train of the day I would advise the 18:47 off Paddington.   The other day (from our initial report) the 19:00 failed to connect into the 20:12 as in fact did the previous South Wales train (18:45?).   But the 18:47 made it, and note (1) applies too.

Selling advanced tickets to Melksham on the 17:45 feels almost like looking for trouble ... IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) it would be far better to offer a more reliable product on the 17:42 or even the 17:30

[Super Guard]

Policy was 1 hour for taxi, unless this changed when the franchise was extended.

[JayMac]

Policy was 1 hour for taxi, unless this changed when the franchise was extended.

Policy? Not so sure about that. Prior to franchise extension:

I once just missed connecting into the 1215 Liskeard to Looe from a delayed (around 30 mins) down Merchant Venturer (0730 ex Pad). Timetabled arrival was 1144, we arrived 1217. Next train to Looe was 1319, 1 hour and 2 minutes after I, and others, had arrived at Liskeard. After station staff had spoken with 'Control' we were all told that there wouldn't be taxis and we were to wait for the next train.

Flip side. One time, I, and fellow forum staffer, bobm, missed an official connection at Maidenhead for Marlow. Despite next service being within the hour, Duty Station Manager at Maidenhead authorised a taxi for us.

If there is a 'policy' then FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would do well to put it in the public domain. I think though that the current situation is either; each case on its merits or, at the whim of staff.

[Super Guard]

I can only speak from experience of working on a station - it depended on which TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) you arrived on though - Virgin/SWT^▸ (South West Trains)/FGW^▸ (First Great Western) used to be all 1 hour, but XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) made it 2 and I believe SWT have now followed suit. 

[eightf48544]

More anolmolies with our disjointed railways.

Shouldn't there be a standard time in the Conditions of Carriage?

[thetrout]

I can only speak from experience of working on a station - it depended on which TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) you arrived on though - Virgin/SWT^▸ (South West Trains)/FGW^▸ (First Great Western) used to be all 1 hour, but XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) made it 2 and I believe SWT have now followed suit. 

Sadly this sounds about right. CrossCountry seem to behave rather bizarrely in periods of disruption. I was refused carriage by them when I had a 1ST Advance from Stoke-on-Trent - Salisbury when there was a journey that would have got me to Salisbury without the need for replacement transport. XC Said as I was a Virgin Trains customer I had to speak to them despite virgin telling me to take the XC Service. In the end I was taxi'ed from Salisbury - Frome at a cost of ^100 to Virgin Trains. But I was told by South West Trains Staff that had it not been a Sunday I would have been waiting for the next Westbury Train

It also does come down to who you speak to as well. At a station I occasionally use (I won't name it) I saw a member of the public giving grief to a member of staff after getting off a train that was very, very late (90+ minutes). There was a connection within 35 minutes to his onward station. The passenger seemed to want to know why the train he was on couldn't stop at his destination and he had to change instead. (You would usually change here for his destination anyway, there are valid reasons why the train couldn't stop at passenger destination and a connection being due in 30 minutes was one of them!)

As there was another passenger with a young child wanting the same station the staff authorised a taxi. However in discussions with the staff later the same evening I was told that had the passenger been on his own he would be waiting for the next service for being so rude. As much as I shouldn't, I couldn't help but agree with that...

In regards to this specific incident from grahame' post. I agree with his suggestion. The 17:30 should be the advertised connection. Both the 17:30 and 17:42 being peak services it shouldn't alter the cost of the ticket. With 7 minutes between the 17:30 and 17:42 I would justify using the 17:30 in this case to guarantee the connection. That being said the 17:42 is probably a quieter service and that might help FGW to shift a passenger flow from what is already a busy train onto one less busy so would be good to ease potential congestion.

I have also seen from the new time table some good and not so good examples of good connections.

The 16:10 arrival at Westbury from Swindon being a poor example. This misses the 16:08 London Paddington service at Westbury.

But on the flipside of that, offers the possibility of Taunton (15:23) and Frome (15:55) to:

• Trowbridge** 16:21
• Melksham 16:30
• Chippenham 16:41
• Swindon 17:03

So a great example of a good connection here. The 15:55 is also a reliable service

** - Change at Westbury for the optional 16:10 Cardiff Central Train arriving Trowbridge at 16:16 but from experience this train is vulnerable to delay.

Edit: corrected time of Taunton Train. tt