Lets hope the survey gets completed by enough people from Worcester and further West to show that the 20% increase in journey times and adding of 2 or 3 stops to through London trains is not accepatable and needs to be reversed.

And before willc gets on his high horse, faster trains with less stop alongside stoppers will be perfectly possible in the peaks.

Interesting points Industry Insider.  And youre right I expect there will be more padding, which would take the timings up to the 2H15 mark as I suggested.  Thats too long IMO^▸ (in my opinion).
Looking forward to seeign your proposed timetable 

Yes I meant 6.25 at Swindon, sorry. 
That train is non-stop between Cheltenham and Swindon, which is what id propose if this was a regular service.  Gloucester and the other stations on that line are currently served hourly by a London train or a Cheltenham - Swindon stopper.

In theory HST^▸ (High Speed Train) timings should or could be something like this following redoubling :

Paddington  12:51
Slough  13:06
Reading   13:21
Oxford arr 13:45
          dep 13:47
Hanborough  13:56
Charlbury  14:04
Kingham  14:13
Moreton  14:21
Honeybourne  14:32
Evesham  14:39
Pershore  14:47
Shrub Hill  14:58

and going the other way....

Shrub Hill  14:23
Pershore  14:32
Evesham  14:40
Honeybourne  14:47
Moreton  14:58
Kingham  15:06
Charlbury  15:16
Hanborough  15:24
Oxford  arr  15:34
           dep  15:37
Reading  16:00
Slough  16:14
London  16:32

So theyd pass at Evesham and between Kingham and Charlbury, and fit into existing Oxford-London paths.  Is that do-able?

Dont think we're ever going to agree on this willc but I do take your points, and at least a reliable hourly service stopping everywhere bar the halts is an improvement.  I really wish FGW^▸ (First Great Western) had kept the Adelantes as with their automatic doors and faster acceleration they could have done Worcester to London in just over 2 hours with the same stopping pattern.  This could have been supplemented by two peak Hereford-London HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s that missed out Pershore, Honeybourne and Hanborough.  As it is, with HST's having them stop everywhere will mean 2h 15 timings at the best I'd imagine.

You asked about the timings for the direct Worcester-Cheltenham-London trains....I was lookign at the wrong timetable, it was last years December to May TT.  The timings there are :

dep Shrub Hill  17:25
arr Cheltenham 17:42
Depart Cheltenham 17:44
arr Swindon  19:25

So as you can see it would be possible to run Worcester to London in less than 2 hours this way, bearing in mind you can do Swindon-London in under an hour(current timetable shows trains taking 55 minutes with a stop at Reading)

I wasnt suggesting cutting out Gloucester stops, these would be extra trains.  On Sundays in March according to the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Timetable, There are one or two direct Hereford - Worcester - Cheltenham - Swindon- London trains.  The journey times are pretty quick on some - 17 minutes Worcester to Cheltenham and 40 minutes Cheltenham to Swindon.  Add an hour to get to London and thats sub 2 hours Worcester to London, which is what Worcester commuters are looking for !

Quite so.
A compromise is exactly what Im suggesting.  Where we disagree is on the level of off-peak service.  Hanborough, Pershore and Honeybourne do NOT need an hourly service to London throughout the day, just at peak times.
And whatever the reasons for operators not running fast trains to Worcester, the fact is that the comparotavely low revenue at the Westenr end is simply because the service offered is so poor.  I know a great many people in the Worcester area who regard the London service as a joke, and always have done.  And many buinessmen, including my Dad before he retired, preferred to go to Birm International or Bristol Parkway for a PROPER inter-city service.
In summary - give the Western end a proper limited stop service and they will use it.

Oh and as an afterthought - what about a service via Cheltenham 5 times a day ?  This would give many advantages :
* A 2 hour Worcester to London journey time
* Direct service to the capital from Ashchurch for Tewkesbury
* Limited station stops
* A half an hour reduction on journey time for Cheltenham to London

Just a thought....

I don't think anyone is suggesting removing Charlbury stops.

Its the stopping every train at Hanborough, Honeybourne and Pershore that I have issue with.

If you want to live in a village, then you shouldnt expect an hourly HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to London !  A stop every 15 minutes is plenty - if you want an hourly direct train to London, drive to Charlbury !  If you dont want to do that, then catch a local to Oxford and change.  Simples.

Just to clarify a couple of things:

* Im not advocating a 2 hourly service to Hereford.  5 a day is fine - but at better times (see a previous post)

* Im also not saying that the level of service to Hanborough (or Pershore or Honeybourne) should be cut - certainly not in the peak.  What I am suggesting is that, off-peak, a 2 hourly level of service to Han, Hon and Per is more than adequate, up to hourly in the peaks.

Therefore a timetable something approximate to : (from London, similar in reverse)

Pattern A Even hours - Reading, Oxford, Charlbury, Kingham, Moreton, Evesham, Shrub Hill, Foregate St. Mal Link, Gt Malv (with some extending to Hereford)
Pattern B Odd hours - Slough, Reading, Oxford, hanborough. Charlbury, Kingham, Moreton, Honeybourne, Evesham, Pershore, Shrub Hill, Foregate St.

from london peak :

15.52  Pattern B
(Halts train Oxford to Moreton between these trains)
16.52  Pattern B
17.22 Pattern A to Hereford
17.52  Pattern B
18.22  Pattern A to hereford
18.52  Pattern B
19.52  Pattern A to hereford
20.52 Pattern B to Malvern
21.52 Pattern B


Surely this should keep everyone happy? 

Interesting point Graham, Ive just had a quick check, and you can do Westbury to Swindon in an hour, every 30 minutes by travelling via Bath. A lot of these trains will have come from Salisbury/Portsmouth/Weymouth etc. as well.  So perhaps this is why First arent concerned about providing a regular service on the direct route.

Of course, this doesnt help Melksham passengers!  Difficult one, can see it from both sides....

Thanks for the reply.  Obviously my lack of knowledge of the politics and finances of the area hampered my view.
Just that, having read about chronic overcrowding on Bristol services, particularly from Westbury to Bristol, I presumed that the problem was not being able to find a unit to run the service.
Hopefully your plans for a 2 hour service will come to fruition soon. 

Sorry willc, not wanting to get into an argument here !

I do take on board a lot of the points you make, but youre comparison with the Kings Lynn line is as inappropriate with mine comparing London to Darlington (which wasnt intended as a compare the route- more "look at how much further you can get in the same time it takes to get to Worcester!").

If London to Worcester was opeated by Electrics with quick acceleration, and stopping at all stations bar "the halts", every hour, then it would only take 2 hours, and no one would complain about stops every 6 or 7 minutes to Oxford.  An hourly electric service to the capital in 2 hours from Worcester, would be extremely marketable and attract lots of new custom.

But the fact is, the route is operated by diesel HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s, which have poor acceleration and are designed for express operation.  Therefore stopping at more stations delays the journey and is extremely off-putting to customers at the Western end of the line.  Why do you think the bulk of the custom on the route is at its Eastern end - because the service to Worcester and beyond is off-putting slow and unreliable.

Hanborough has gained a huge amount of revenue in the last few years - because its service has been drastically improved.

What I, and others here, are compaigning for is, a similar improvement for longer distance travellers.  And that means, a fast, limited stop INTER-CITY service from Hereford and Worcester.  The re-doubling gives the opportunity to implement this.

I have no knowledge of the area, but Im confused as to why an off-peak Swindon-Westbury can't run?

Presumably the lack of service is due to the perennial lack of available units in the Bristol area.

But I would presume the unit that forms the early morning TransWilts then forms a commuter service into Bristol from Westbury?  And would then be spare until the evening peak from Bristol.

So why couldnt the unit run something like :

6am Westbury - Swindon
7am Swindon - Westbury
8am Westbury - Bristol
9am Bristol - Westbury
10am Westbury - Swindon
11am Swindon-Westbury
12pm Westbury - Swindon
1pm Swindon - Westbury
2pm Westbury-Swindom
3pm Swindon-Westbury
4pm Westbury - Bristol
5pm Bristol - Westbury
6pm Westbury-Swindon
7pm Swindon-Westbury

Surely this is possible?  Doesnt provide many peak services on the TransWilts but does provide a regular off-peak service.

willc, i'm guessing you live near the Oxford end of the line !
I do agree with your point on through Hereford trains - I wasnt suggesting we had a 2 hourly service now, just that there used to be one.

I'd suggest 5 trains a day is fine - leaving Hereford at approx 6am, 7am, 10am, 1pm and 5pm.
And leaving London at approx 7am, 10am, 2pm, 5pm and 6pm

It's all very well saying that commuters at Hanborough have got used to through London trains - thats true, but its come at the expense of limited stop expresses.  What Stebbo says is quite true - many people avoid the Cotswold Line from Hereford and Worcester because they dont want to be stuck on a train stopping at every village in the Cotswolds on its way to London, and taking almost two and a half hours to London from Worcester ! (You can get to Darlington from London in less time on the train!!!)

 My dad preferred to drive to Birmingham International and get a train to Euston because, as he put it "I may have to drive for half an hour, but at least when Im on the train it doesnt stop every 5 minutes!".

I dont see why this scheme cant provide the best of both worlds - through commuter trains to London from the smaller stations, mixed with expresses that are sub-2 hour from Worcester and 2h45 from Hereford.

Thanks for your replies guys, espescially willc.

A couple of things in reply to will's posts.

The 10.10 Paddington in Malvern in 1986 stopped as follows;  Reading 10.35, Oxford 11.00, Charlbury 11.14, Kingham 11.23, Moreton 11.30, Evesham 11.45 and Shrub Hill 12.02.

Also you mention that 5 through trains a day to Hereford is the best ever.  In the sixties and seventies there were 7 or 8 through trains at two-hourly intervals.

I totally take your point about revenue at places like Hanborough.  Surely though the bulk of this revenue comes from commuters in the peaks.  With the track doubling there would be provision in the peak for 2 HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s to/from London calling at all stations (except the "halts") and 2 fast HST's to/from Hereford.  Outside the peak then its perfectly reasonable to have an hourly service, alternating between stopper from Worcester and fast from Hereford.

Hi everyone, as a Worcester lad with a keen interest in railways, have thoroughly enjoyed reading this forum, and thought Id post my first thoughts about the Cotswold Line, a route Ive travelled on (and suffered on) many times!

Delighted that the redoubling has gone ahead, but am wondering what the level and speed of services will be after the work has taken place.

I gather an hourly London service is planned - this is excellent.  But Ive worked out that this can be done now with the current infrastructure.  So I assume that the work is purely to increase reliablilty and delay recovery.

But I sincerely hope that there will be a significant reduction in journey times.  I have a copy of the 1986 timetable for the route.  This shows the 10.10am HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from Paddington reaching Worcester Shrub Hill in 1 Hour 52 Minutes.  The fastest HST these days, including the "crack" commuter HST's in the peaks, take 2 hours 15, on the same infrasturcuture as 23 years ago !

Of course there are more trains on the line now, but what this route REALLY needs with the new infrastructure is two-hourly sub 2 hour trains from London to Worcester, that are extended to Hereford in 2 hrs 45. The other two hourly service would stop at more places (ie Hanboro, Honeybourne and Pershore) and terminate at Worcester.  There could be 1 or 2 additional services in the peaks, with an infrequent stopper from Bicester - Oxford - Moreton using a 165.

Any thoughts?