Having recently done Cardiff to Southampton on a 150/2, I would say an arguement over the long term comfort of a 185 vs Voyager are pretty academic. I was hopeful that we would get a transfer to a 158 at Bristol, but no, another 150/2. Could have been worse- there was a chance of a 150/1.

Actually, my preferred option for Cardiff to P'mouth would be a 170 series (but one with a quiet interior that didn't ride like tank and rattle like a bus) or a 185 (without the bum wiggle on points and rough track!!) with the cabin comfort of a 175. I definately think it would have to have 1/3 and 2/3 doors though to cope with the sections where commuter "crush loading" is likely to occur.

Nice to see the 150/1 have arrived though- they look smart. Is there going to be a 2x2 seat upgrade, or just new uphostery and lick of paint?

Daniel

I think that Mk2s^▸ (Mark 2 coach) were drop down windows with door handles on the outside only.

I also remember those funny internal door handles on the Southern Electrics- it was nice to be able to get out of a train without too much kerfuffle.

In Italy, the door interlocking in UIC-Z stock turns off below 3mph automatically so that you can open the doors before the train stops (you can hear it click like on the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train))- this even occurs at signals! This is why you often hear of mass passenger revolts in Italy when trains get held up for ages- this is because they can get out and form an unruly mob if necessary! I can't really image UK^▸ (United Kingdom) passengers being trusted with a system like this!

As for refitting the HSTs, the latest Virgin and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) refits are far from shabby and show that the good old Mk3 is still good for frontline. I particularly think the idea of ditching one toilet per coach on the Virgin refits was a good idea. However- I thought that corrosion was going to be a terminal problem soon. They are surely going to need a major refit, which will be expensive and trigger all the DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) regulations etc.

It's a shame that noone can get all those spare MK3 coaches (including the Irish ones), DVTs^‡(resolve) and Class 90s / 67s togther to solve medium term problems- obviously, a certain degree of refitting would be necessary, but at least we wouldn't be fighting over 150s! Any other country in Europe would have managed to get something together. Don't forget that all those aircon Mk2s are happily trudling around New Zealand in various states of refitment- why can't we manage something like that here?

Daniel

Sounds great.

However, will the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) actually fit down the Vale of Glamorgan route? I know it is C3 cleared, but there are some quite tight curves / clearances + the IEP is longer than the MK3/4. If this is the case, although other electic stock could use the route (e.g. freight), it couldn't be used as a diversion route for Pad-Swan.

Daniel

Just a comment regarding ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s valley routes. Most are actually very long, especially as trains are rostered very efficiently, with routes being combined and units being kept on long W pattern type diagrams. For instance, a train might start at Cardiff, then go to Bridgend (1hr), straight back to Cardiff (1hr), then on through Cardiff to Abedare (1hr), then STRAIGHT back to Cardiff (1hr), then onto Barry (half hour), straight back to Cardiff, up to Merthyr (1hr), straight back to Cardiff, onto Bridgend and then straight back to Cardiff. That's why they have been forced to improve reliability.

And this is why we might see some of the stock allocation change- for instance, the 142s are much more reliable than the 143s and Sprinters. Even though they are old, ATW might want to keep hold of them, as they are dependable. Similarly, Northern run 321 based electrics, which I think are the most reliable type of AC unit in the country. Why have new units (with running in glitches and system wide teething troubles), when you can get your hands on LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)'s super reliable 321s......

New isn't necesarily better.

Daniel

I've travelled on a family coach from Myrdahl to Bergen on the Oslo-Bergen railway.

As we got on to a standard coach, a NSB official waved us to come over. Being used to UK^▸ (United Kingdom) rail we were preparing for some kind of Norwegian Jobsworth event. However, he directed us to a coach at the front, which was approcimately like a kid's birthday party! The first part of the coach was about three or four family compartments, with spaces for buggies etc, the middle section was a playground and the far section was an area of airline seating.

My son thought he had gone to heaven, as he loves trains and to find one with a playground in was quite exciting. Of course, you could not have the playground in the UK, as health and safety would prevent it (there was a minor fall, scrape or bump every 5mins, due to the train rocking. I have attached a photo of the play area with several kids kicking each other in the head! It'll be a cold day in hell when we get something like this in the UK......

Funnily enough, a grumpy British business person got into the coach by mistake- the kids ripped all the keys off his laptop and took has mobile phone apart before he had a chance to protest.

(only kidding).

The Scandinavians (and most mainland European countries) have a much more tollerent attitude to kids and are actually sensible enough to plan for all kinds of train users. Not even the best behaved three year old is going to be able to keep that quiet, unless eating or asleep!! When my son was wailing on an Intercity Plus express to Genoa, two random strangers, a priest and a FS clippie all came along (smiling) to have a chat and make of fuss of him. Needless to say, quiet was restored quite quickly. Conversely, we were booked into a FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Paddington to Cardiff service- we had been booked into the quiet coach for some reason, as we certainly hadn't asked. It was the first off peak train out of London, so once we were in, we couldn't get out. My son was happily pointing out all the trains, trucks and buffers at the top of his voice. Can you imagine the looks we got? Nothing could be done though!

Daniel

I have no actual knowledge of what is going on with potential loco hauled situation, but it occurs to me that Arriva probably have approx 3x four car rakes of MK2 aircon stock. Might this have something to do with it??

Daniel

Wasn't the High Speed Train a temporary measure because we couldn't get our act together sorting out the long term solution (the APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train), subsequently Class91/Mk4)??!

Dithering about this kind of thing is not new- for instance, after the war in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), it was decided that a lovely modern fleet of steam engines should be built. Within 20years, these were replaced by the most hit and miss diesel / electric project ever imaginable. There were an incredible amount of expensive turkeys in the modernisation program that did not complete their full life cycle (class 17, 23, 28, 29, hydraulics, early series AC electrics) and also those that needed substantial work (some of which, like the class 29 remained turkeys!) to be moderately effective.

Meanwhile in places like Italy and Switzerland, widespread electrification has been a reality for nearly 100 years in some places. Doesn't that make you feel that arguing a case for GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification is more than a little bit embarassing? I think we need to get a little bit of "doing" going here and less procrastination.

How did I guess that the U-turn back to electrification would end up being used as an excuse to do nothing in the short term.

Daniel

I don't mind having Welsh announcements first as (although I'm not Welsh myself), I am trying to pick up Welsh. The one to watch out for is that the Welsh word "dileu" looks (and sounds) like it should be "delay", but actually means "cancelled"!! It is also funny listening to mutations in the train announcements, as "Pontypridd" can also be "Fontypridd" and "Bontypridd", depending what comes before. Sometimes, you can hear it all three ways in one announcement.

As for business park, that is no more daft than the English word "bankrupt", which is actually two Italian words crushed together "banca" and "rotta" (meaning broken table- when a money lender went out of business, their stall was broken up to show that this)- why couldn't us stupid English think up our own word??

Daniel

Some services on the VoG are four car every day, but are usually 2x pacer units (e.g. the 17:41 from Cardiff to Bridgend- this is usually pretty full) rather than sprinters. 2 car trains are most likely to be Sprinters. Ebbw vale is usually two car Sprinters (rarely pacers), though are often bolstered to 4 coaches at the week end. Generally, Arriva's rostering is impressively rock solid around Cardiff- you will get the same combination running at the same time each day, rather than having whatever scrapings are lying around Canton at any given time. I know that the Vale of Glamorgan trains do a "W pattern"- which includes running from Barry Island to Methyr T, then back through Cardiff to Bridgend via Rhoose, then back up to Abedare. Sometimes trains can be short formed, but they usually put this right at the first opportunity as the train passes through Cardiff. The trains most prone to short forming seem to be trains heading up the valleys between five and six: this is when the most units are in use, so it is less likely that short formings can be corrected. Even with things relatively settled, it can still be pretty crowded. it's still a huge improvement on how things were, say five years ago. Still, people will actually invest ^ in railways in Wales.

Platforms have been adjusted so that six car trains can run from Treherbert to Cardiff, Rhymney Valley to Cardiff and Penarth- however, there are not enough trains to run 6 car trains yet. All other services can manage at least four car, except for Maesteg (four car platform extensions in progress) and possibly the City Line.

I hope some common sense prevails and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) actually get the trains to meet demand- however, I do think that maybe it is time to let go of the through trains to Brighton. I can remember Southampton to Portsmouth etc being a total trial in a clapped out Hampshire Unit- however, I was amazed at the quality of the Southern Electrostars now on the route. Surely it would not be a big ask to get people to change at Southampton + tweak the lecky service accordingly? I guess it would even be a cross platform interchange, so not too bad for those with lugage.

Daniel

Is it usual to have a single 143 on the 08:00 from Cardiff to Taunton? I travelled on Monday and it was like hell in a tin can.

Daniel

Devon Metro, see my previous post on Valley lines journey times.

The WAG^» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) is only serving the same purpose that a PTE^▸ (Passenger Transport Executive) (or whatever they are called now) serve around Manchester etc. There should be something similar for the South West, but there isn't- this is why there is no Bristol commuter network (like there should be) and why stock could get transferred away in the way it did.

Yeah, I can remember initial comments suggested that Card to Soton would be 4 car 158s just before FGW^▸ (First Great Western) started (har har!). That should still happen IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), it should have the same kind of capacity as the Salisbury - Exeter route, even.

The Wessex franchise was calously stripped of its rolling stock in a way that I hope is never seen again! I kind of like 142s in a funny sort of way (like marmite!), though I couldn't live with them if they didn't have chapman seats (like ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))'s)- that will be the only component worth saving when they do (eventually) scrap the little tikes. What really depresses me is that my three year old son is likely to be 15 when that happens!!!!! Please someone pull their finger out before then!!!!

The thing about the Arriva transfer is that new infrastucture is in place, there's just not enought trains to use it properly.

In order to run a properly resourced commuter system, it will always be necessary to have stock left over in the day. That's how maintenance cycles work!

Daniel

People are upset because 42 station platform extensions have taken place, new signalling installed and additional passing loops built and then half the stock to run it has been subleased to FGW^▸ (First Great Western): for a year so the investment (i.e. our taxes) is partially unused. See if you can imagine that applying to your local service without feeling the tiniest tingle of annoyance.

It is possible to please everybody, but that includes having governements invest in appropriate levels of rolling stock.

I'm genuinely glad that the Cardiff - Portsmouth service has got extra stock and that the ex Wessex services are being sorted out, it was a total disgrace- but please avoid getting in an "us and them" type debate. We all live in the United Kingdom and we all deserve a decent rail service.

Daniel

PS...please note the 150s are "subleased", not "confiscated". I wouldn't be at all suprised if first group is having to cough up an AWFUL lot for this deal.

Cheers....I know which, but not when!!

Daniel