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All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on December 08, 2011, 01:30:41



Title: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 08, 2011, 01:30:41
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16077983):

Quote
Travelling through the Channel Tunnel by train needs to be easier, cheaper, and more comfortable, says a committee of peers.

The Lords EU Committee calls for more services to mainland Europe and an end to complex ticket booking.

At present less than half the tunnel's capacity for passenger services is being used.

The peers say cutting the charges which train operators are forced to pay would help to increase services.

The committee's report calls for a "concerted effort" to improve services and a review of the 25-year-old agreement under which the Channel Tunnel is operated.

The Tory peer Baroness O'Cathain, who chairs the sub-committee which produced the report, says there are too many "obstacles" which stop rail services improving.

"The Channel Tunnel offers a huge opportunity to get passenger traffic off short haul flights and off the roads of Europe," she says.

"It is absolutely staggering that less than half of its capacity is being used and only one company, Eurostar, is operating passenger services."

To tackle that the committee calls for a cut in the charges made before train operators can use the tunnel.

The German train operator Deutsche Bahn is aiming to run trains from London to Frankfurt and Amsterdam from 2013.

It plans to run three services daily, also serving Brussels, Cologne and Rotterdam.

The committee says it is important that these services are not delayed.

On ticketing, the committee heard evidence that a journey from a UK station outside London to a destination in Germany can involve buying four different tickets.

"The train companies involved should get together and sort this out," says Baroness O'Cathain.

She is also for seating on Eurostar trains to be "less spartan" .

"People travelling to Paris or Brussels may not expect a meal, but they should expect proper seats."


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: grahame on December 08, 2011, 11:30:37

On ticketing, the committee heard evidence that a journey from a UK station outside London to a destination in Germany can involve buying four different tickets.

"The train companies involved should get together and sort this out," says Baroness O'Cathain.


Agreed.   The UK rail network has it reasonably together with regards to fares and ticketing compared to international rail journeys, and indeed compared to UK buses. 

I don't mind multiple tickets, mind you, provided that the information is there and linked up nicely - times and fares, and options, and I can buy all the tickets from a single source.  But at times, journeys can be really hard to plan ...   I can recall (a) from home to Sulzbach (Main)  and (b) from home to a bus stop on the outskirts of Antrim which were particularly interesting to research and book, even though the connections worked well all the way though and the journey itself was good both times.   

A mere improvement in IT co-ordination would boost traffic without the need for capital investment on the ground (except perhaps there would be too much traffic for the buses, trains and ferries to cope wth ;) )




Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: Tim on December 08, 2011, 14:03:34


I don't mind multiple tickets, mind you, provided that the information is there

With bus integration in the UK, I completely agree.  Things like Plusbus (ticket integration) are nice to have but not essential.  Things like making the timetables connect and having realtime bus info at the train station are much more important and the part of integration that is all too often lacking.  If I can get my whole journey information from a simgle site with good connections then it doesn't bother me too much if I have to pay a couple of quid to the bus driver separately.


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: Btline on December 08, 2011, 19:04:21
The Channel Tunnel has also been in the news about the "Lille Loophole" - a shocking problem that is an open door for illegal immigration.

What makes my blood boil is that Belgian Police have threaten to ARREST the UK Border staff who are only doing their job in protecting our border!


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: Brucey on December 08, 2011, 19:12:44
Surely the simple answer to the Lille Loophole is to locate UK border checks in the UK, rather than at the departure point?  I can't think of any other way this loophole could be blocked, without stopping "domestic" travel within the Schengen area.


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 08, 2011, 19:48:09
Lest anyone is unaware of the 'Lille loophole' story - from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16058860):

Quote
UK border staff in arrest threat over 'Lille loophole'

British border staff have faced threats of arrest by Belgian police for trying to stop people exploiting a loophole allowing them to enter the UK without passport checks, the BBC has learned.

Passengers can travel from Brussels to Lille without showing passports as Belgium and France are both within the Schengen area. But they can then stay on the train to the UK as there are no further checks.

The Home Office confirmed it was working to tackle the "Lille loophole".

The Schengen agreement allows passport-free travel between some European countries, but the UK is not a signatory.

Passengers with tickets from Brussels to Lille can board the train to London without showing a passport, but no-one checks whether passengers actually get off the train at Lille and UK Border staff do not perform checks on board. So passengers can continue on to London St Pancras, without going through further passport control, and illegally enter the country.

Radio 4's The Report has seen internal UK Border Agency (UKBA) correspondence highlighting the loophole, and the threats being made to staff trying to tackle it.

One UKBA officer describes an incident in April at a Brussels station where he stopped two Iranians who he said "bore all the hallmarks of Lille loopholers".

After they were questioned the Belgian police intervened. One officer shouted: "This has got to stop. You are not in Britain now, you are in Schengen. If they make a complaint you will be arrested."

The BBC has seen other emails describing clashes this year between UK Border Agency staff and Belgian federal police.

This led one officer to warn that many staff he had spoken to were so scared of being arrested by the Belgian police that they "will now turn a blind eye to potential Lille loopholers".

The issue has been discussed at the highest levels of the UK Border Agency and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

An email from a senior director to staff in May this year stated that the British Ambassador to Belgium had "voiced UKBA concerns on border controls for Lille passengers" to the Belgian immigration minister.

The Home Office minister Damian Green confirmed that both he and the Home Secretary Theresa May are aware of the loophole. "Any loophole in our border defences is a matter of concern," he told The Report. "It's one of those things that the British government can't solve on its own^ that has to be solved in negotiations, and that's what we're now doing."

He added: "There are strict British immigration controls in place in France and Belgium and we have UK Border Agency officers based at St Pancras to target those we believe are intent on entering Britain illegally. We are currently working closely with our Belgian counterparts and Eurostar to resolve this as quickly as possible."

The government could not say when the loophole will be closed or how many people had exploited it.

The chairman of the Home Affairs select committee Keith Vaz told the BBC he was "astonished" by news of the loophole, and by the government's response to it.

"The minister is taking what appears to be a very casual approach to this very serious issue," he said.

He said he would question Jonathan Sedgwick, the acting chief executive of the UK Border Agency, about the matter when he appears before the select committee later.

"If a simple railway ticket can give you entry into the UK, this is a cause for real concern," he added.

The Report is on BBC Radio 4 on Thursday 8 December at 20:00 GMT. Listen to the full programme via the Radio 4 website or download the programme podcast.


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: inspector_blakey on December 08, 2011, 20:36:07
Surely the simple answer to the Lille Loophole is to locate UK border checks in the UK, rather than at the departure point?

Exactly - this obviously can be and is done periodically, so it would make sense to abandon the "pre-clearance" situation from Brussels at least and revert to checks at the UK border. The alternative solution I guess would be for UKBA officers to travel on-board and conduct a full passport check on departing Lille - presumably there is enough time between Lille and the next stop to allow for an inspection without needing a prohibitive number of officers.


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: Btline on December 08, 2011, 20:38:18
I agree. It would also allow UK trains to leave from normal platforms throughout Europe. You could get rid of the awful Gard du Nord system and let passengers just walk up to the train 5 mins before and board. (making up for the extra time queuing at London) Do an announcement saying you need a passport if you go beyond Calais otherwise you'll be arrested and deported by the UK border police.

I suppose scanning luggage would be a problem, but is it really necessary?


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: inspector_blakey on December 08, 2011, 20:40:44
No reason why bags couldn't be scanned at the beginning of the journey and then passport checks carried out at the destination - it's exactly the same procedure (in most cases, at least when you're departing from a country that does not have passport controls on exit) when you fly after all.


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: Ollie on December 08, 2011, 23:59:55
I've had my passport checked onboard a Eurostar service, and have also had checked on arrival at St Pancras - so both can be done :)


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: JayMac on December 09, 2011, 00:20:22
....or the UK could just become a signatory to Schengen.


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: inspector_blakey on December 09, 2011, 01:15:56
Careful, we don't want Btline suffering from a cerebral aneurysm... ;)


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: TerminalJunkie on December 09, 2011, 13:19:27
Comment quelqu'un avec pas de cerveau souffre d'un trouble c^bral?  8)


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: JayMac on December 12, 2011, 03:15:34
Un poste amusante d'un de nos p^dants r^sidents.


Title: Re: Peers call for better Channel Tunnel rail services
Post by: TerminalJunkie on December 12, 2011, 08:41:26
Je n'ai pas vraiment vivre ici, je suis juste de passage.



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