Great Western Coffee Shop

Extra Capacity across our network

Train operator, First Great Western has successfully secured and is investing in 48 additional carriages, which will come into service between February and September 2012.

This investment is in addition to the six carriages for Bristol (creating 900 additional seats) announced in August, and the 30 carriages whose future was secured in the Westcountry last year.

Bath and Bristol

The additional vehicles - announced by the Department for Transport earlier today - will deliver another 924 seats into and out of Bristol across morning and evening peaks, including 336 through Bath.

Cotswolds

Five Class 180 Adelante trains will be leased and refreshed to replace most of the Turbo services on the North Cotswolds line between Worcester and London Paddington.

Devon and Cornwall

One of the vehicles will be used to strengthen the Truro to Falmouth line, allowing all services on the line to run as two carriage units. Over the day this will add 2,100 seats, and will double capacity on key services including the 0747 Falmouth-Truro.

The other vehicle will strengthen services between Paignton, Exmouth, Exeter and Barnstaple. This adds 270 seats through the morning and evening peaks, and alleviates the capacity issues affecting school children and commuters on the 1554 and 1655 services from Paignton.

London and the Thames Valley

The new vehicles will mean an extra 4,500 seats will be available for customers into London from the west, including South Wales, Bristol, Swindon, Didcot and Oxford across the morning and evening peaks - an increase of around 9 per cent.

Two three-car Class 150 trains - six carriages - will also be leased and refreshed to operate weekday commuter services between Reading and Basingstoke, increasing peak capacity by around 13 per cent.

First Great Western Managing Director Mark Hopwood said:

^We^ve seen an ever increasing demand for travel on our services.  While that demand is gratifying in one respect, it can lead to overcrowding on peak services, which is why we^ve been working with for some time to secure additional carriages.

"We have worked hard to put together an innovative deal that really maximises the benefit to customers from the rolling stock currently available. This investment - some ^29 million - will deliver thousands of extra seats for customers across our network.

^m delighted we^ve been able to reach this deal with the Department for Transport, and I thank the Members of Parliament, local authorities and other key partners who supported our efforts."

The extra carriages being provided thanks to Government support will see 15 Mark III buffet-car carriages converted to standard class to provide longer trains on services into Bristol, Reading and London Paddington.
25 Class 180 carriages will be leased and will then release suburban rolling stock to enable shorter distance commuter trains to be lengthened into Paddington.
Six Class 150 carriages will used on services running between Reading and Basingstoke and thereby allow the stock currently on that route to lengthen suburban trains on the Thames Valley into Paddington.
Two Class 150 carriages will be added to Bristol services allowing two Class 153s to be cascaded onto Truro to Falmouth and Exmouth to Torbay services.

The extra seats are being added thanks to Government funding for an additional 48 carriages on First Great Western services which run through Reading and the Thames Valley and into London Paddington as well as in Bristol and the far south west of England.

5.The total cost of providing these services until the expected end of the First Great Western franchise in April 2013 is ^28.9m.

I'm sorry, but is this thread not about rolling stock and capacity?

I'm sorry, but is this thread not about rolling stock and capacity?

It may be laudable that FGW are spending their own money elsewhere. But that hasn't been officially announced today has it?

ChrisB, I'll take it as written that all the other things you mention will come to pass. Will FGW make an announcement of their funding of these extra bits and bobs?

let's remember that First Great Western passengers and staff alike (i.e. 'us' on the forum here) will benefit hugely thanks to this desperately needed boost to capacity and in the Cotswold Lines case, comfort as well

Absolutely.

Having endured a 166 back from Hereford to Charlbury on Sunday (aircon bust, train freezing cold) this can't come soon enough. Well done to FGW for pulling this off.

Having endured a 166 back from Hereford to Charlbury on Sunday (aircon bust, train freezing cold) this can't come soon enough. Well done to FGW for pulling this off.

Remember, the DfT screwed up at the start of this franchise by supplying to little stock within it to satisfy demand.

HMm, som,ewhere I have read that the Adelantes are only for use on weekdays.

Yep. But I'm told the CLPG is pressing for at least one of them to be allowed out to do the notorious Sunday Hereford run.

nothing specific about cardiff-pompy then?

a friend of mine traveled last weekend on a 5 car formation between bristol and salisbury and it was full and standing

DfT Press release online at  http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/press-releases/dft-press-20111122 (I don't think anyone's posted the link yet)

Hang on. Chris ... each bidder for the franchise was asked to specify how much stock they would require, so the responsibility is surely with the bidder.   If I go into my local Asda and buy a small turkey to feed 20 people at Christmas and they all leave still feeling hungry, I'm the one that's made the mistake for underbuying - I can't blame Asda for tempting me to buy a too-small bird at a lower price than a bigger one.

f ex Virgin buffets

Sorry Dog Box - but this did conjure up a rather inappropriate image in my mind!!!

Just trying to understand the Mk 3 buffet point.  It talks about converting them to standard, and being extra, so am I right to assume that they are taking the off lease vehicles, stripping out the buffets and making them all seating (TSOs).  Or are they simply taking the in service full buffets and converting the seating to standard.

If the former, it'll be a bit ironic that they went to all the trouble of building the micro buffets into existing TSOs and now they are converting full buffets to TSOs. Still, mustn't complain too much.

It appears that the only impact on Bristol commuters is in respect of the HST lengthening, as the extra Class 150 vehicles replace Class 153 vehicles?  

I suppose it would be too much to ask that the Mk3 buffets are converted to lower density standard class and used on the far west services, substituting for a toast-rack coach that would be added to the Bristol trains?

Grahame ...An HST cannot run with out Coach A was it there but locked out of use

And while I'm around (this purely my personal observation, by the way, and not an admonition to anyone), I'm susprised that what strikes me as an unequivocal "good news story" has inspired so much negative posting already.

 :-\

why on earth would FGW mess around converting fifteen non-standard vehicles and them trying to keep track of them so that they were dedicated to WoE services? Quite apart from the fact that there would likely only be one in any given train. Really don't see that this would achieve anything at all.

On BBC Points West this evening, Matthew Golton (FGW Director) was shown, walking through an HST carriage with a BBC reporter, explaining that the First Class seating and micro buffets would all be completely stripped out and replaced with (I think) 94 standard seats?

Sorry, I may have misheard the number of seats - I was cooking dinner at the time!  ::)

If they are using the prototype units on the bsk service they could easily add first class if deemed worth it to do so

No 1st Class for Reading - Basingstoke. I assume there aren't many (or any) 1st Class season ticket holders from the intermediate stations on this route.

No toilets either.

There's also a 2+7 that's being canibalised for coaches - so another 5 are available. Reduce the 6 above to 5, then use these 5 cannibalised coaches & hey presto - they're *all* 8 coaches. Some with proper buffets, some with the cafe.

We have to remember though that as far as the HST's are concerned it was FGW which removed the 8th coach from many of them.   If the system was set up to do something other than screw over the tax-payer, by rights that move should have resulted in tens of millions of pounds flowing the other way from FGW to the Dft.  I bet it didn't.  

You sure there's no toilets on the Class 150/0's?  The ROSCO data sheet for them seems to contradict that?

http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/en/fleet-portfolio/data-sheets/view/27-brel-prototype-sprinter (http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/en/fleet-portfolio/data-sheets/view/27-brel-prototype-sprinter)

Aaahhh. now if I remember correctly, the removal of the 8th car was part of the bid accepted by the DfT as part of the franchise win. The DfT agreed that they weren't needed for the expected passenger loadings - and of course it saved fuel, not having to pull a tonne of coach around....

I also think that at the time it was done there was a belief that the 2 + 7 set's running times could be accelerated - I doubt that ever happened though, because as usual it would be impossible to make sure the sets were diagrammed properly...

Can anyone confirm how many 2+7 sets will still be in operation after the 15 vehicles have been added to make all the rest 2+8's?  If my calculations are correct I think it's only going to be four or five?

Now obviously I can only go by info from public sources. That may well be wrong. These spares will no doubt be used (if serviceable) to cover maintenance and I wasn't suggesting that FGW have any current spare capacity in their HST fleet just because they have these unused carriages at Old Oak and Laira.

On-lease spare according to the most up to date fleet lists I've found.

I fear I'm gonna be seen ticking off carriages in my fleet book. But I only bought it because I wanted to get a handle on FGWs HST fleet logistics. Honest.  ;D

The real pros can be observed reading the numbers into dictaphones these days. Crossing off numbers in ABC guides is just so 1950 ;)

This is in addition to the 900 seats announced in August during peak times on local commuter trains, including those serving Freshford, Oldfield Park and Keynsham.

The only Maidenhead trains it is helping, I think, are the stoppers.. I am very disappointed with this..  ??? :o

No 10 the 17:18 is disappointing, I used this last Friday it was crushed with lots getting out at Maidenhead only to be replaced by loads getting on, (a couple of Muppet's with a full frame bikes did not help) 

Surely the 17:18 has to be the worst crush loaded train.

First Great Western buffet cars made seating carriages

Disused buffet cars are being stripped and turned into seating carriages by rail operator First Great Western (FGW) to try to curb overcrowding.

The rail firm is refurbishing 15 buffet cars and 33 former high speed carriages which will add one extra carriage to the London rush hour services.

Passenger group Railfuture has praised the move but said it is a "stopgap measure" and more capacity is needed.

FGW said it had taken positive action to increase seating capacity.

Managing director, Mark Hopwood, said: "We've found some buffet cars which haven't been in use for a while. We've sent those up to a railway works in Scotland.

"They're being stripped, completely refurbished and rebuilt from scratch inside with 84 seats."

'Complete scramble'

Work to refurbish the 48 additional carriages started last month and should be rolled out across the network by September.

Commuter, Matthew Critchley who travels from Kemble in Gloucestershire to London, said: "From London, it's a complete scramble to get on the train in time to get a seat and often you have to stand until Reading or Didcot Parkway.

"I think people who have season tickets ought to have guaranteed seats, they ought to have more carriages and trains for the price we pay."

Bruce Williamson, from the transport pressure group Railfuture, said: "The problem is you can't just go to a train dealer and buy one off the shelf, these things take an awful lot of time.

"We're suffering from a lack of long-term investment.

"What people don't understand is that rail operators don't own the trains, they lease them and the operators are micro-managed by the Department of Transport.

"Every little helps. These interesting, imaginative ideas have got to be welcomed but we need to recognise these are stopgap measures."

There is a strong argument that since they pay so little for their journey they should have less right to a seat than full fare paying passengers.

Wow - tables that line up with the window. :o :o

Actually, looking at the clip again, I'm pretty sure the final shot is of a Class 180 carriage interior, which certainly looks like it's getting more of a refit than I expected, but is retaining the same table/seating layout.

FGW HST power sockets are unusable for many chargers, unlike Chiltern's, who rotated the socket 90 deg.

Take a two or three way square adapter with you - the socket on the top or side then works for most chargers.

Looking through the back of the carriage is the front-end of a 180 so it seems likely, assuming that the stock is all kept together for refurbishment.

FGW HST power sockets are unusable for many chargers, unlike Chiltern's, who rotated the socket 90 deg.

Scots' skills ease rail commuting crush

An engineering workshop in the Scottish town of Kilmarnock may seem an unlikely place to find the answer to Oxfordshire commuters^ prayers.

However, work being carried out there will soon ease the squeeze on busy rush-hour trains serving the county.

Extra 125mph rolling stock for train operator First Great Western is being overhauled or converted in Kilmarnock by Wabtec Rail Scotland, which can trace its roots back to a business founded in the town in 1840.

Five five-coach Class 180 Adelante express trains, last used by FGW in 2009, are being given a makeover before they return to operation on services between the Cotswold Line, Oxford and London.

And 15 redundant buffet cars are being turned into standard class passenger coaches, which will add an extra 84 seats to many of FGW^s High Speed Trains used on services from Oxford and Didcot.

Last summer the Department for Transport revealed that the 10 most overcrowded commuter trains operating around London were all FGW services to or from Paddington station, including four serving Oxfordshire.

Although work by Network Rail to electrify the Great Western main line to Oxford is expected to start next year, bringing the prospect of new and cascaded electric trains from 2016, finding a way to boost capacity in the short term on FGW^s currently diesel-worked routes was not easy. Lengthy negotiations with the DfT eventually led to a deal for the extra stock last autumn.

Speaking to the Oxford Mail in Kilmarnock, FGW managing director Mark Hopwood said: ^We had to find a way to add capacity quickly on a railway facing electrification, which meant it was difficult to justify new-build trains. The vast majority of the extra capacity will be delivered by the summer, ready for the Olympics, to cope with the additional passengers then.^

He added: ^Our customers will see a big increase in the number of seats at the busiest times of the day but there is more to come. This is a short-term project but is part of a long-term effort to raise capacity on Great Western routes. The return of Adelantes to the Cotswold Line will be a good step up in journey quality for our passengers, with all but one train running west of Moreton-in-Marsh on weekdays operated by an Adelante or an HST.^

FGW stopped using the trains due to concerns over operating costs and technical problems but Mr Hopwood said that the Adelantes used by sister firm First Hull Trains were now as reliable as FGW^s HST fleet.

All 14 Adelantes in use with UK train operators are being given reliability modifications by their owner Angel Trains in a ^5m programme.

Wabtec Rail Scotland site director Craig Gibson said the work being carried out by his staff would give the Adelantes and extra HST coaches the look and feel of brand-new trains, matching FGW^s existing express fleet.

Overhaul checklist

Class 180 Adelante: The trains are stripped of interior fittings before being repainted inside and out in a process which takes three days per coach. New carpets and seat covers are being fitted, along with power sockets for laptop computers. The first set is expected in service in May, and all five should be in use by late July. The Turbo trains they displace from Cotswold Line duties will be used to add extra coaches to busy peak trains on the Oxford-Reading-London corridor.

HST buffet car conversions: The coaches are stripped of all fittings and given corrosion repairs before being repainted. New seats, lights, toilets and luggage racks are fitted. The removal of redundant kitchen equipment means the finished coaches will be five tonnes lighter than they were in their old role. The first five will be delivered to FGW in July, just in time for the London Olympics, with all the rest in traffic by September.

...the charging sockets at the airline seats have no such problems. In fact, they're the neatest type I've seen so far, given that if someone in the aisle seat wants to plug something in they don't have to trail their cable across the lap of the person in the window seat.

Buffet windows are being cut out to full size.

... the article (which struck me as a typical 'Willc' piece ...

Well, with all 4 daily 180 diagrams in service, and all of the 2+7 HSTs now extended to 2+8 carriages, this announcement has come to fruition.

Travelled in one of the 'new' coach E Mk3s today. Noticeable when comparing the interior carpets and upholstery with the existing carriages.

Externally, they've done a good job. You can't even see the joins where the narrow buffet windows used to be!

I don't suppose you have a picture of one of these do you?

A rather critical report on Meridian Tonight of the impact of the extra capacity, the web version of which somewhat amusingly refers to First South Western.

It's at http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/story/2012-09-24/misery-monday-for-rail-commuters/  ;)

There are occasions where passengers don't help themselves though, for example I watched the 18:50 PAD-OXF depart Paddington last week.  The back of the train was jam packed full of standees, so much so that you could hardly see that there was a buffet counter somewhere in amongst them.  Go forward as far a coaches A and B though and there were literally dozens of seats available.  Perhaps FGW should do more to let people know that is the case?  I certainly think that would be one benefit to swapping round the location of First Class as loadings in Standard Class would be more even.

I've actually not seen any extra carriages on any rush hours trains from Maidenhead that I have travelled on.. I did ask via Facebook and FGW on there (thanks Jo and Olllie) also weren't able to get someone to give them that information.. It does make me wonder where the extra carriages are... I am pretty sure they aren't on Maidenhead Rush hour trains... But I can't tell for sure..

I've actually not seen any extra carriages on any rush hours trains from Maidenhead that I have travelled on.. I did ask via Facebook and FGW on there (thanks Jo and Olllie) also weren't able to get someone to give them that information.. It does make me wonder where the extra carriages are... I am pretty sure they aren't on Maidenhead Rush hour trains... But I can't tell for sure..

That aside it is so good to have that list as it helps me (and would help other people if FGW could somehow publish it) decide what to do in the case of disruption or just when the odd train is cancelled knowing which ones have more carriages..Or even on a day to day basis..

Thanks again  :)

Some operators (I can't remember which) put posters up at stations that give the number of carriages on peak workings, and I believe may even give a prediction of how full they are likely to be to help passengers make an informed choice as to which service to catch. Very useful.

So, a total of over 1600 seats each weekday morning from Maidenhead to Paddington, including two extra Standard Class carriages spread over the three HST operated services - just shows the scale of the capacity problem if regular commuters still perceive no difference!

Thank you so much for that information IndustryInsider.. One of the reasons I asked was I was driving past Maidenhead station a few days ago and saw the 8.34am pulling in as 3 carriages (which it has been for a couple of years since they took the extra carriages away from it).. Thish made me begin to wonder.. It sounds like that isn't what it is supposed to be however so hopefully a one off..

Another reason I asked is because I've been on a couple of different evening (fast) turbos in the last week or so which are still 3 carriages and were very full..

Is it really cheeky to ask for similar statistics for the evening rush hour?

That aside it is so good to have that list as it helps me (and would help other people if FGW could somehow publish it) decide what to do in the case of disruption or just when the odd train is cancelled knowing which ones have more carriages..Or even on a day to day basis..

Yeah I have seen that somewhere.. I'm pretty sure one place was SWT at Basingstoke (or Kingston maybe).. Very useful...

07:18dep 07:43arr  Now: 5   Was: 3

FGW do it for summer Saturday afternoon services out of Weymouth, for example ...


But with a caution that it's not 1600 extra seats for people from Maidenhead.   If each train calls at 8 stations on its way into Paddington, that's an average of just 200 extra seats per station.  You list 29 services, so that becomes just 7 extra seats for Maidenhead passengers per train ... hardly surprising that it may feel like a drop in the ocean  :-\

Arrggh, but this used to be a 7 or 8 coach HST, not so long ago.
I don't blame them for not advertising this fact, taking some away and giving less back doesn't sound too good.

No problem.  I'll do an evening rush-hour one when I have time (probably Friday). 

18:36dep 19:03arr  Now: 5   Was: 2   (Suspected short formation last December)   
19:06dep 19:26arr  Now: 3   Was: 3
19:18dep 19:39arr  Now: 5   Was: 3   (Now a Class 180, so actual seating remains roughly the same)

Just a couple of comments..

The 18.36 has always been more than 3 carriages so your suspected short formation in December is true I'm sure

No idea why the 19.06 is still only 3 carriages.. It is a very busy/popular train at least as far as Maidenhead.

One of the reasons I was wondering about extra carriages was because I got the 19.18 recently and it was still 3 carriages so I guess a problem on that day...

Does anyone know how many extra standard class seats are there in a 180 over a Turbo?

There probably is a greater seating capacity from Oxford ... simply because the train starts empty from there, rather than having a proportion of the seats already occupied by through passengers from Banbury.   Even the same old train would have offered more seats from Oxford if it had been altered to start from there, rather than coming through part-loaded from further north!

I've got the 19.18 Paddington to Maidenhead a few times now... Only once was it a class 180.. Are there any official statistics on this?

Does anyone know why? And is it permanent?